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A legal question
#1
Hello.

I was wondering if anyone knew about how legal it would be to use games that you are currently renting on PCSX2? I can't imagine it is, because I technically don't own it, but I thought I'd ask.
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#2
If rented legally, you have temporary legal ownership (or the right to use it, rather).

The only problem comes up when you return the game. I believe the potential issue here is obvious. It is probably equally obvious why most wouldn't wanna touch that question. Wink
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#3
well if he make an ISO out of it can he still use it legally after returning the game ???
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#4
Well, if the temporary legal rights only last for the duration of rental... I guess I better make this perfectly clear:

Before you return the game, you delete any image(s) of the disc you have made. Making and using an ISO is perfectly legal, so long as you retain the legal rights to the exact disc the image is made from. Once a rented disc is returned, your legal rights are gone. Not only is it illegal to use that ISO after returning the disc, it is illegal to even possess that ISO anymore.

The end result of keeping the ISO would be NO DIFFERENT THAN PIRATING.

(In my honest opinion, this should obviously seem illegal, wrong, unfair and all around WRONG based on common sense.)
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#5
Ah, thanks for your replies.

Of course, I had only intended to use it during the time that I actually have access to it, not after returning it.


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#6
The legality is going to be pretty rough to interpret based on the laws of different countries... in the US I believe it would technically be illegal to make a copy at ALL because you are NOT the owner. The company that rented the game to you would be and thus they are the only ones that legally could make a backup in any shape or form.

The DMC is pretty clear that you are only legally allowed to make 1 duplicate from an existing copy you own...

This line of thought would be similar to, say, renting a car. While you rent the car you are allowed to drive it and use it within it's normal functions but you aren't allowed to modify the car. You couldn't, switch out engines with the car while you rent it even if you plan on switching the engines back out. While there no reason to suggest the rental company wouldn't let you get away with it if everything was restored 100% to how it was, it's still not your car and thus you don't have the legal right to modify it.
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#7
Agreed. So much for the insanity of intellectual property. I can even imagine that in some countries you are not even allowed to put a PSX2 disk into a PC drive, since it's not made to be put there.
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#8
(06-16-2011, 09:43 PM)Koji Wrote: ... in the US I believe it would technically be illegal to make a copy at ALL because you are NOT the owner...

I believe it could be viewed as converting to a different form, with perfectly legitimate reason (performance benefit). In this, I'd say the purpose of said "copy" not being a "back-up", but actually a different medium for what's a perfectly legal way to use a game. It is indeed a "grey area", so it is something to be potentially determined in a court of law. With evidence stacked against the defendant, s/he would certainly be screwed. The lack of any evidence indicating otherwise (i.e. no ISOs of rented games found), and there is reasonable doubt to stand in court.

I guess what I'm saying is: I'd take the case. Wink

(06-16-2011, 09:43 PM)Koji Wrote: This line of thought would be similar to, say, renting a car. While you rent the car you are allowed to drive it and use it within it's normal functions but you aren't allowed to modify the car. You couldn't, switch out engines with the car while you rent it even if you plan on switching the engines back out. While there no reason to suggest the rental company wouldn't let you get away with it if everything was restored 100% to how it was, it's still not your car and thus you don't have the legal right to modify it.

Although I see the point of your analogy, there is one major difference between the two. Making an ISO from a disc does not modify the disc in any way.

I offer another example: My PSP's UMD drive broke. Can I not play rented games by the means necessary? Or is it not reasonable to say one could utilize CFW legally?
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#9
By definition of the DMCA, no you can not use the CFW legally because it circumvents copy protections inherent to the system.... This is different from emulation because backwards engineering IS legal and designed to promote competition and what not in industries.

But the tricky part comes in when you factor in the fact that a law was recently passed in the US that allows for jailbreaking... but that law ONLY applies to cell phones (and is VERY specific in mentioning phones, which is why Geohotz of iphone and PS3 fame wasn't sued for his iphone hacks but WAS for PS3 hacks). The cellphone jailbreaking law's definition hasn't been expanded to include anything else... it would have to go to trial and a fairly proactive judge would have to side with hackers which inherently have a bad name making this unlikely.

So as it is currently, it is illegal... but there IS an arguable route to go, sadly it would be a costly one if it ever went to court as you'd be up against Sony's legal department.


Back to your first point, you make a good point and sadly I'm not versed in the laws well enough to say if that would really hold up... It really all depends on how much rights the renter has over what's rented... and when it comes to digital goods, I'm honestly not sure how well defined it even truly is legally in the US.
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#10
(06-18-2011, 06:43 PM)Koji Wrote: The cellphone jailbreaking law's definition hasn't been expanded to include anything else... it would have to go to trial and a fairly proactive judge would have to side with hackers which inherently have a bad name making this unlikely.

So as it is currently, it is illegal... but there IS an arguable route to go, sadly it would be a costly one if it ever went to court as you'd be up against Sony's legal department.

It also includes PSP, because it is a calling device. (having skype it is a device that can be used to make calls)
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