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About Security and permissions
#1
One the most misunderstood concept about security, permissions and access rights in Windows derives from mistaking the UserAccount for the application it runs.

Before getting directly to the point let us make an analogy about the concept of free (as in Freedom) and proprietary software:

Proprietary - means the owner does have all rights and normally means everyone else have none or restricted.

Free - Means everyone has rights and no one has exclusive rights.

This analogy is precious to understand several issues concerning access rights issues being repeatedly reported.

All those special folders are 'proprietary' to someone or something for Windows, that includes the C:\Program Files and the special case of the Documents folder.

When a common folder is created it can be seen somewhat as Free for all at some extent, it means the creator has all basic accesses, the registered users have most of them and guest accounts only limited access.

The main implication being almost anything (or anyone) will be allowed to run in these folders without being chased down by the OS.

Now, by taking over specific ownership of the folder and giving himself full and special accesses effectively equate turning it "proprietary" and here lies the reason for the thread title and the thread itself.

The mistake lies in believing than since the user is "all might" on that folder he should not have problems running things there. But that falls down because applications aren't the user, since they are running in a 'protected' environment it can have some special and internal tasks it needs to perform denied by the OS.

To worsen things the messages will not point the real cause for the issue.

To understand the application is not the user it's enough to recall as you need to allow or prevent some them on the firewall access for example, it's done at the application level and not the user level.

Let's use a practical example, one already reported in the forum and concerned the PXSX2 running from inside the "Documents" folder (notice that folder is the user's property, it's meant to be so, no one wants anyone else messing with our things, right?).

The issue is known by the message it generates, it's something like:

Code:
"could not copy xyz.tmp to abc.ini"

That message is misleading, it seems to point there "is" a permission violation or access deny.
But indeed it means there "was" a permission violation before. The reason xyz.tmp could not be copied is because it Could not be created, there is nothing to copy to abc.ini...

And that was because the application although inherits the user's privileges it is not the user. The OS treat it as an invader, an intruder and a threat in that folder and prevent it to perform tasks not directly involving the user.


The meaning of all that is these misunderstandings tends to accumulate, the "Solutions" like messing the permission mechanics are illusory and particular, they are only workarounds that can't grant never another particular issue will arise for the same application, let alone the problem will repeat itself every time a new application is installed in those protected folders.

And remember, taking over ownership on a folder just make it "proprietary" and bound to the issues described above. At some point the whole system becomes unstable, erratic and unforeseeable, not seldom needing the infamous format reinstall Windows.

Think about it. Much more simple than fixing things is not creating them broken from the start.

Install games inside a normal folder, a FREE folder, one that is not plagued by the "property" concept where it's not really needed.
Imagination is where we are truly real
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#2
I'm lost, because I have that problem you just exampled. I downloaded the Binary of the new beta awhile back, and moved it to desktop to avoid the memcard and pcsx2.ini problems back when i had vista, pcsx2 0.9.6, and the UAC. Should I move it some where else or run it off an external HD? Where on a HD is a folder free and where I can put the program?
Toshiba Satellite Notebook L505D
Windows 7 32-Bit - 3GB RAM
AMD Athlon X2 QL-65 2.1GHz
ATI RADEON 3100 256MB Memory Size-1GB shared.
DirectX 9/10/11
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#3
It's true, although the reason to avoid placing files in the desktop is of performance kind.

Any folder does the trick, just avoid special folders. You could create a C:\Games and install PCSX2 in there. The name does not matter at all, but having a "Games" folder helps getting things organized. It could be another partition or disc too, like D:\Games or E:\Games.

What was explained in the OP is valid for any game, this means PC games too. It's imperative for modable games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, etc.

Notice UAC still can be somewhat an issue if it's seated too high, although not directly because access rights issues but mainly because the annoying redundant messages which can silently create problems, still it's not needed to disable it completely, just place at some 'sane' setup.
Imagination is where we are truly real
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#4
OK. I understand now, that explains why my Screen Recorder and a game was installed in C: drive instead of Program Files or Desktop. I'll try this today on the PCSX2. Thanks, everyday I'm learning something new, and I'm in a Computer Systems major. This info can help me alot. x3
Toshiba Satellite Notebook L505D
Windows 7 32-Bit - 3GB RAM
AMD Athlon X2 QL-65 2.1GHz
ATI RADEON 3100 256MB Memory Size-1GB shared.
DirectX 9/10/11
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#5
Feakin' sweet jeez!!!, It worked. You were right, I just made a game folder on C: drive and installed the emulator. Works better than when it was on desktop. Thank you, Kind sir.
Toshiba Satellite Notebook L505D
Windows 7 32-Bit - 3GB RAM
AMD Athlon X2 QL-65 2.1GHz
ATI RADEON 3100 256MB Memory Size-1GB shared.
DirectX 9/10/11
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#6
You are welcome. It just shows the less than smart the windows security features can be...
On Linux the Home folder is a home not a prison for the user Smile
Imagination is where we are truly real
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#7
Mostly with all my games I make a partition of 40 GB for windows and the 2nd partition on that drive for installs of games, program setups, mmorpg installs & mods, patches, drivers, etc...

thus my pcsx is in the games folder on the 2nd partition, that's why it's probably working without any flaw, besides hardware shortage ofcourse and I mean more like that my cpu is the biggest bottleneck for pcsx, but still I always recommend everybody I know irl, to make a 40 GByte partition for windows and install the basic programs to it, and games f.e. to the 2nd partition. Since I download most games from the internet, which is still legal for own use here in the netherlands, I can run them whenever I like, since I don't need the disc to play the game. One flaw with an 320 GByte HDD, is that it's quite full pretty fast, f.e. The Last Remnant is installed about 15 GByte. and other games that I like, which are quite big.

Still besides that fact, it's better to install games to another partition and leave the windows partition nice and clean, thus u don't have to reinstall or/and defragment the hdd.

I've done this for about 7 years now and it works like a charm, also I've got the newest drivers backed up when I reinstall windows.
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