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About emulation and piracy
#1
Is piracy and emulation of stuff liek the bios really bad?
I mean, I think it's a good thing for people who live in really poor countries to be able to play games through emulators. As we're not able to afford a PC and several gaming systems. And a PC is a must-have to be able to progress in todays world.
Why is every emulation forum against piracy in general? I mean they can't get you in jail for talking about piracy Wacko
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#2
Emulation isn't an excuse for not buying the Consoles/Games.

And if you're trying to emulate, for example, a PS2, it's way more expensive to buy a computer capable of running games fullspeed than buying a PS2, wich is cheap nowadays.

Yes, a PC can emulate whatever you want, but depending on the system you want to emulate, you might need some really expensive components to do it fast and enjoyable.

And yes, the companies can sue, and they WILL sue if they find the oportunity, they have the power and the money to do it. Even if they don't lose money due to emulation!

And, last, the rules of this forum aren't a matter of discussion anyways, so don't even try.
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#3
Think again. They can and they will. That is why most forums are against it. They don't want companies to start giving them crap and do you have any idea how expensive a court case can get? It's enough to shut down a website.

Yeah, sure, poor people cannot afford stuff like games and whatnot. They barely have enough money to get by, but that doesn't mean they can break the law and get away with it. It's sort of like someone breaking into another person's house and steal everything. What was the excuse? The robber was poor and couldn't afford any of that stuff.

Sure, I may sound like a jerk for saying all of this, but it's true. If one person can use the "but I'm poor" excuse, eventually, everyone else will use that excuse. And then game producers won't make any money, because everyone pirate their games. As a result, the number of game developers will decline until there are virtually none, which would ultimately put an end to video gaming. Do you really want that? Shame on you. You're a horrible person. Now there's no more video games in the world. I hope you're happy. You should be ashamed of yourself. D:
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#4
(12-02-2009, 06:11 AM)damicore Wrote: Is piracy and emulation of stuff liek the bios really bad?
I mean, I think it's a good thing for people who live in really poor countries to be able to play games through emulators. As we're not able to afford a PC and several gaming systems. And a PC is a must-have to be able to progress in todays world.
Why is every emulation forum against piracy in general? I mean they can't get you in jail for talking about piracy Wacko

If you're not able to afford a PS2, you're unable to afford a PC good enough for emulation.
AMD Phenom II 940 @ 3.6GHZ, 4GB PC8500 @ 1100MHZ, 4870x2 @ Stock.
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#5
Well in defense of the original poster, he's making a generalization of all consoles and (I suspect) is thinking more of the modern consoles which are still much more costly than the PS2 (and when you factor all 4+ together, much more expensive than a good PC). So arguing that a PS2 is cheap isn't going to satisfy his point at all.

Unfortunately, by corporate point-of-view, "unable to afford" is not an excuse, ever. Capitalists don't subscribe to the theory of charity, unless it makes them look good in public view or if it creates a secondary market (such as giving away razor handles in order to sell people replacement blades).

The bottom line here is that while Corporate can't really go after you, the user, they can and will target the tool (us, the devs). So by proxy we're obligated to exercise legal responsibility in our program and support forums. Most (or all?) other emulator developers carry the same general policy for the same reason. If you actually appreciate the work we do and the software we provide then you should be willing to do us a big favor and respect that obligation.
Jake Stine (Air) - Programmer - PCSX2 Dev Team
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#6
I can second everything Air has said... For several years I was a moderator of the SNES9X support forums and the same general rules applied. Let's be honest, it's not about protecting the end user... I can tell you right now that it probably wouldn't upset any of the devs or moderators here at all if you broke the law by pirating and you got caught and prosecuted for it. The problem is, that companies don't go for end users. There is no point in doing so...

They may stop one person who pirated $300 worth of software, but it may come at the price of $10,000 or more in court and lawyer fees... But if there are even just a few thousand pirates they'd bankrupt themselves pretty fast. The targets are distributors or those that in same way facilitate that pirating. Legally, they can't target emulators if they don't contain any pirated or copyrighted code or part of their code. At least as long as they aren't selling their software (even then it's met with very very limited success in court and done better to bankrupt)

If they can't go after the emulator authors directly for the emulator, then they will try and find other more successful ways of dealing with the situation. If any of the developers, moderators, administrators, etc were seen to support (by allowing links to pirated games, etc) they would then be completely open to litigation by sony or any of the game companies represented.


And even throwing every single bit of that aside... You're getting this emulator for free. Hundreds to thousands of hours of hard work has been put into this project for everyone's enjoyment... and the only cost it comes to everyone who wants support from the authors and the community is to follow a few simple rules... The main one is to just not mention piracy.
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#7
That was a really good answer Air.
I still see piracy as a really good thing (and interesting, reverse ingeneering can get pretty fun as far as I know) because it does what GNU can't, it makes part of non-free software free for those who cant afford it(obviously its still not open code and whatever but end-users can still benefit a lot from it).
I, as a person who will study sciences of computation, understand that we need a market (at least if the state of things keeps like this) generally to be able to survive, but in my country (Argentina) we receive really low salaries in comparisson with the prices and the recaudations our products get in the market. The market will always be there, medium to big sized companies cant use pirated software, they'd be sued untill bankruptcy so I think there's no problem there (I would support good non-overpriced software whenever I can).
Still if you can avoid getting in trouble you should.
Keep doing a great job and having fun with it.
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#8
(12-02-2009, 06:39 AM)dr_thrax Wrote: Think again. They can and they will. That is why most forums are against it. They don't want companies to start giving them crap and do you have any idea how expensive a court case can get? It's enough to shut down a website.

Yeah, sure, poor people cannot afford stuff like games and whatnot. They barely have enough money to get by, but that doesn't mean they can break the law and get away with it. It's sort of like someone breaking into another person's house and steal everything. What was the excuse? The robber was poor and couldn't afford any of that stuff.

Sure, I may sound like a jerk for saying all of this, but it's true. If one person can use the "but I'm poor" excuse, eventually, everyone else will use that excuse. And then game producers won't make any money, because everyone pirate their games. As a result, the number of game developers will decline until there are virtually none, which would ultimately put an end to video gaming. Do you really want that? Shame on you. You're a horrible person. Now there's no more video games in the world. I hope you're happy. You should be ashamed of yourself. D:

My thoughts exactly. Piracy is bad. But I'd be lying if I said I haven't pirated before (maybe I shouldn't have said that). I'm a thief in other words. I steal from others to accomplish my selfish dreams of becoming a video game designer. Its a sure way of stealing without getting caught. Shame on me!!!

I'm so getting a warning for this Unsure
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#9
Stealing is not the same thing as piracy. To steal is to remove an item of someone's possession... whether that someone is a store, or an individual. Piracy (in the software sense) is not stealing, it's a copy. The difference is that if you stole a game, the owner cannot sell that game because they no longer have it. If a game is pirated, the original owner (in this case a store) would still be able to sell it since they'd still have their copy.

Piracy reduces the chance of someone buying a game, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility like stealing would.


damicore: believe me, I can understand the plight that some people have in countries that don't have a super strong economy where the average person can afford a lot of luxuries (especially if they are overpriced). That said... you can't exactly make exceptions... Especially since again it wouldn't be you that'd be punished but rather the authors of PCSX2. Either way you look at it though piracy is piracy... You can try to find reasons to justify it, but either way under the current system of international law it is illegal.
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#10
(12-02-2009, 09:13 PM)Koji Wrote: Stealing is not the same thing as piracy. To steal is to remove an item of someone's possession... whether that someone is a store, or an individual. Piracy (in the software sense) is not stealing, it's a copy. The difference is that if you stole a game, the owner cannot sell that game because they no longer have it. If a game is pirated, the original owner (in this case a store) would still be able to sell it since they'd still have their copy.

Piracy reduces the chance of someone buying a game, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility like stealing would.

Ah, good point. I never looked at it from that perspective.
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