Poll: Should we add a new category above playable like excellent or perfect?
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Yes
77.27%
17 77.27%
No
22.73%
5 22.73%
Total 22 vote(s) 100%
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Discussing the possibilities of the "Perfect" rating
#31
I had thought about this many times in the past, after checking out how the Dolphin team used the perfect rating.
My first hesitation was that there are too few games who would make it with PCSX2. Don't think that because most of us don't notice there aren't bugs all around like missing shadow geometry (persona games) or some missing effects which are small and easy to miss but still not there.

I like avih's idea of multiple markdowns and I was also thinking in the past of using a system like THIS which would be awesome with multiple tags. The downside to this would be much increased testing time and harder to make reports.

Of course all this would require an almost complete rewrite of the parser I use for the list, but hey if I can do it I have no problem
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#32
Regarding the list:

"I don't think speed excludes a game from perfect"
After hearing some games that don't work well in HW mode require an i7 to run at full speed in software mode I'd have to say I think speed has to matter to some extent. IMO, what they're doing with Dolphin is okay--choose what qualifies as a "good" system and if it doesn't run at full speed on that then it isn't perfect.

"I don't think requiring software mode excludes a game from perfect"
Agree.

"I think needing a manual gamefix or patch definitely excludes a game from perfect"
Agree

"I think Perfect means providing a very PS2 like experience, where the average user could not tell the difference(for more in depth on this see other posts)"
What would you put as the exact text you'd have up on the definition of perfect on the compatibility list? That will need to be hammered out eventually so it's best to start now and you can see if anyone raises any concerns about it.

"I think needing special rounding or clamping modes that are NOT automatically applied excludes a game from perfect"
Agree. Currently there's no system to automatically apply rounding or clamping changes is there? Or does it get covered by the automatic gamefixes?

"Basically, if a user has to do more than press F9(Software mode) to reach the PS2 like experience, then it's not perfect"
Note that there may be some games which require very good processors which the user will need to increase the number of rendering threads to run it at full speed in SW mode which plays with that requirement in an odd way a bit. Perhaps PCSX2 could automatically set the default number of rendering threads based on its detection of the user's processor and what would typically be "best" for how many cores it has?


(07-07-2014, 11:05 AM)Blyss Sarania Wrote: And how about some discussion on one that HASN'T been brought up yet - Games that would APPEAR perfect, but we know are "hackish" under the hood. Are those Perfect?

I see no reason to raise a problem about that since totally cycle accurate PS2 emulation is impossible on any system currently in existence so there are going to be shortcuts everywhere. The compatibility list is mostly for the user AFAIK and most probably don't care too much about under the hood as long as the game looks perfect and behaves perfect. Speed runners may be an exception but I don't think PS2 emulation is ready for speed runners any time soon.
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#33
@bositman You just gave me an idea though. If we used a "tagging" system then also not too much of the parser should have to be redone. Like, we just add one more section to the reports like this:

Tags: Software, High requirements

What I am more concerned about is how this will all be displayed on the compatibility list. Adding a "Perfect" category itself isn't too drastic a change, but where do the badges actually go physically on the page if we go that route? It needs to be where the user can glean the appropriate information easily and quickly. The badges idea is useful I think, but if we overdo it we risk information overload with games that have several badges.

As far as my opinion, I think adding the Perfect category, along with badges for software mode and maybe high system requirements, is the best way to go.

And I think adding the Perfect category is less about how many games fall into it right now, and more about a long term goal. I do agree it could increase motivation - currently 94.5% of games fall in our highest category. Adding one above that gives a bit of motivation to get those playable games perfect.
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#34
(07-07-2014, 12:34 PM)BlackTelomeres Wrote: Regarding the list:

"I don't think speed excludes a game from perfect"
After hearing some games that don't work well in HW mode require an i7 to run at full speed in software mode I'd have to say I think speed has to matter to some extent. IMO, what they're doing with Dolphin is okay--choose what qualifies as a "good" system and if it doesn't run at full speed on that then it isn't perfect.

Yes as refraction pointed out and I agreed, I think if a CPU is above the 60FPS line here and a game still can't run full speed, then it would be excluded from perfect.

Quote:"I think needing special rounding or clamping modes that are NOT automatically applied excludes a game from perfect"
Agree. Currently there's no system to automatically apply rounding or clamping changes is there? Or does it get covered by the automatic gamefixes?

They do get applied by the gameindex I _think_ but there are several games that need such changes that aren't included in the gameindex.dbf yet(FFX backwards characters for instance).

Quote:"Basically, if a user has to do more than press F9(Software mode) to reach the PS2 like experience, then it's not perfect"

Note that there may be some games which require very good processors which the user will need to increase the number of rendering threads to run it at full speed in SW mode which plays with that requirement in an odd way a bit. Perhaps PCSX2 could automatically set the default number of rendering threads based on its detection of the user's processor and what would typically be "best" for how many cores it has?

Interesting thought, and a good idea. Writing such a formula is simple if we detect the total number of cores:

extraRenderingThreads = totalcores - (3 + (MTVU))
if extraRenderingThreads < 0 then extraRenderingThreads = 0

Where MTVU is a 1 if it's on and a 0 if it's not.

Quote:"I think Perfect means providing a very PS2 like experience, where the average user could not tell the difference(for more in depth on this see other posts)"

What would you put as the exact text you'd have up on the definition of perfect on the compatibility list? That will need to be hammered out eventually so it's best to start now and you can see if anyone raises any concerns about it.

I am tossing that around in my head as we speak.
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#35
(07-07-2014, 12:40 PM)Blyss Sarania Wrote: Adding a "Perfect" category itself isn't too drastic a change, but where do the badges actually go physically on the page if we go that route? It needs to be where the user can glean the appropriate information easily and quickly. The badges idea is useful I think, but if we overdo it we risk information overload with games that have several badges.

If the SW mode label is only needed if the game is perfect the badge could just be inside the colored box that indicates perfect.

High system requirement ("yes/no") could just be a new column to the right of the playability status

Also, if green is playable, what color is perfect?
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#36
Quote:Interesting thought, and a good idea. Writing such a formula is simple if we detect the total number of cores:

extraRenderingThreads = totalcores - (2 + (MTVU))
if extraRenderingThreads < 0 then extraRenderingThreads = 0

The core/thread detection does not work properly with all processors, so we can't do that unfortunately.

Yes the game index can apply clamp modes for games it's set to do it. That's what 'automatic game fixes' is in fact, fixes found in the game index
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#37
(07-07-2014, 12:51 PM)BlackTelomeres Wrote: If the SW mode label is only needed if the game is perfect the badge could just be inside the colored box that indicates perfect.

High system requirement ("yes/no") could just be a new column to the right of the playability status

Also, if green is playable, what color is perfect?

I think the software mode badge could be useful for Playable games as well.

Perfect color... hmm, I am not sure. Well, it's not that huge of a question anyway. Purple perhaps(my favorite color). Who knows? Tongue
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#38
I'd say same color as playable with a yellow/gold border around it?
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#39
(07-07-2014, 12:53 PM)Blyss Sarania Wrote: I think the software mode badge could be useful for Playable games as well.
It was brought up that it would create a lot of overhead to do that for every game though right? Still it would be convenient of course.

(07-07-2014, 12:53 PM)Blyss Sarania Wrote: Well, it's not that huge of a question anyway. Purple perhaps(my favorite color). Who knows? Tongue

(07-07-2014, 12:57 PM)Bositman Wrote: I'd say same color as playable with a yellow/gold border around it?

Something like that--a green center with a sort of embossed gold border would work, or a silver or platinum-looking icon I guess. Mostly it comes down to whoever makes it I suppose.
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#40
Well, implementhing the SW mode badge at all means we have to identify games that need it. Adding it for playable too is no different, we just update when a game comes along that we find needs it.

I agree, the yellow border around the green for perfect is a good idea.
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