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Internal Resolution / blury image
#1
Hi guys, I have 1680x1050 monitor but using internal resolution like 1680x1050 (or even 1680x1680) gives me blury picture. Only after using something like 6x native resolution I can see really sharp picture, and the best image was when I set 4000x4000 or even 5000x5000 resolution. I also use PSP emulator, and the same story applies there. Only in dolphin gamecube emulator picture is perfectly sharp with "normal" 1680x1050 (my monitor native resolutin). So my question is, why that happen ? Maybe something could be done about that ?

I'm using PCSX 2.1.2, I have tried dx9,dx11 and opengGL, no change. On the other hand, software renderer looks fine, it has low resolution, but picture is crisp and sharp with it's 512x512 native window (god of war for example).

My PC -3570 4.5 GHz + 770GTX 2GB, 8 GB system ram
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#2
(03-30-2014, 06:53 PM)pawel86ck Wrote: Hi guys, I have 1680x1050 monitor but using internal resolution like 1680x1050 (or even 1680x1680) gives me blury picture. Only after using something like 6x native resolution I can see really sharp picture, and the best image was when I set 4000x4000 or even 5000x5000 resolution. I also use PSP emulator, and the same story applies there. Only in dolphin gamecube emulator picture is perfectly sharp with "normal" 1680x1050 (my monitor native resolutin). So my question is, why that happen ? Maybe something could be done about that ?

I'm using PCSX 2.1.2, I have tried dx9,dx11 and opengGL, no change. On the other hand, software renderer looks fine, it has low resolution, but picture is crisp and sharp with it's 512x512 native window (god of war for example).

My PC -3570 4.5 GHz + 770GTX 2GB, 8 GB system ram

The answer is probably in your monitor and how it downscale the "excess".

Since it is forced to do it when you set the internal resolution beyond it's capacity, the stupidly high resolution becomes increasingly more effective, but should you need to force the downscale to begin with?

It's a balance game between the upscale and posterior monitor downscale. Besides, maybe is some other factor to blame, for example the deinterlace method used (sadly a necessary evil in most cases).

Remember, the upscale is already a process of blending adjacent pixels properties, like color, transparency and so on, so it is already a blurring process although not so much as conventional filters might become (well, not exactly that simple but may pass the idea).
Imagination is where we are truly real
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#3
Quote:The answer is probably in your monitor and how it downscale the "excess".
You see, even when I set dx11 "NATIVE" resolution (so thers 512x512 window with 1:1 pixel mapping), picture is blury. On the other hand software mode in 512x512 window looks crisp.

Quote: but should you need to force the downscale to begin with?
Thats what I want. In gamecube emulator I dont need to downscale, everything is perfectly sharp.

Quote:The answer is probably in your monitor and how it downscale the "excess".
It looks like PCSX2 scale resolution iself, not monitor or GPU. For example you can change game window border size in real time.

BTW. When I downscale normal PC games, it looks georgeus, no matter if I use GPU scalling or monitor scalling.
Quote:maybe is some other factor to blame, for example the deinterlace method used (sadly a necessary evil in most cases).
It could be deinterlace method. But gamecube games arnt also interlaced ? (games from gamecube looks sharp)
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#4
(03-30-2014, 07:38 PM)pawel86ck Wrote: You see, even when I set dx11 "NATIVE" resolution (so thers 512x512 window with 1:1 pixel mapping), picture is blury. On the other hand software mode in 512x512 window looks crisp.

Thats what I want. In gamecube emulator I dont need to downscale, everything is perfectly sharp.

In the first case, mainly if using full screen, or the borderless windowed mode it is in fact in the case), there is already a stretching to fit the monitor. And then you are forgetting those other factors mentioned before, with deinterlace playing a major role.

Anyway, comparing emulators for different consoles should be avoided. Even in PCSX2 case, that "nicety" of having better image than the original is beyond the emulation duty already... but since it's a nicety it's nice, OK.

You are working with post processing in any the above cases and some of them cost too much as you may have noticed trying those "unrealistic" high resolutions already.
Imagination is where we are truly real
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#5
Quote:Even in PCSX2 case, that "nicety" of having better image than the original is beyond the emulation duty already... but since it's a nicety it's nice, OK.
Yes, picture already looks much better compared to ps2 native, but for now only extremly high resolution makes it look as it should be (and this is my point).
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#6
Some games are using post processing layers for additional fullscreen effects like blur, bloom, color adjustments or fake antialiasing.
The God of War titles are one of them.

The only way to get rid of it is to use the skipdraw hack in gsdx, this makes the image sharper but the graphics worse Tongue2
So I don't recommend using that.

MSAA should help to get rid of the aliasing, for the rest you have to increase the internal resolution.

Main Rig: i7-3770k @4.5ghz | 16GB DDR3 | Nvidia GTX 980 TI | Win 10 X64
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#7
Code:
Some games are using post processing layers for additional fullscreen effects like blur, bloom, color adjustments or fake antialiasing.
The God of War titles are one of them.

The only way to get rid of it is to use the skipdraw hack in gsdx, this makes the image sharper but the graphics worse Tongue
So I don't recommend using that.
Just tried this skipdraw hack and picture is sharper, but gamma is different now... it does looks strange Smile. So it looks like post processing is one to blame, and probably rendering this game on higher resolution makes post processing look sharper.

BTW. even without skipdraw hack I can see, that some effect are missing in hardware mod (god of war). For example in software mode, theres shadows, fog, dust particles, and bloom. Because of that I'm planning to buy god of war collection on ps3, it has all of that in 720p
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#8
(03-30-2014, 08:35 PM)pawel86ck Wrote:
Code:
Some games are using post processing layers for additional fullscreen effects like blur, bloom, color adjustments or fake antialiasing.
The God of War titles are one of them.

The only way to get rid of it is to use the skipdraw hack in gsdx, this makes the image sharper but the graphics worse Tongue
So I don't recommend using that.
Just tried this skipdraw hack and picture is sharper, but gamma is different now... it does looks strange Smile. So it looks like post processing is one to blame, and probably rendering this game on higher resolution makes post processing look sharper.

BTW. even without skipdraw hack I can see, that some effect are missing in hardware mod (god of war). For example in software mode, theres shadows, fog, dust particles, and bloom. Because of that I'm planning to buy god of war collection on ps3, it has all of that in 720p

Skipdraw removes a whole "layer" of the image, if you get the correct one you can lose the menus, hud and such. Of course not all are that hard and if a certain layer is the cause of unbearable problems, removing it might be the price to pay ATM.

Anyway... "as it should look" is like what you get managing to connect your actual PS2 to your monitor (probably needing an adapter). Believe me, you will bless that blurriness and possibly build a shrine to it.
Imagination is where we are truly real
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#9
Screenshots would be nice.

Do you have Edge AA enabled in software mode, or texture filtering in hardware mode?

If your hardware is strong enough, play around with AA settings in PCSX2 and your GPU drivers a bit.
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#10
Quote:Screenshots would be nice.

Do you have Edge AA enabled in software mode, or texture filtering in hardware mode?

If your hardware is strong enough, play around with AA settings in PCSX2 and your GPU drivers a bit.
When I turn off texture filtering (in hardware mode), it looks even worse. Also I tried various settings in NV control panel, but besides color correction none of them works in PCSX2 (so theres no MSAA, or FXAA)

[Image: 4TuODA.png]
This is 1:1 pixel mapped comparison, both images were cut from 1400x1050 original (It's 4.3 mode on 1680x1050 monitor). Even on this picture I could clearly see blurriness on the right side, (its 1680x1680 internal resolution), on the left Kratos looks much sharper (5100x5100 internal resolution). Also, I tried gdsx 11,9, openGL, still the same.

Picture starts to look sharp at 4000x4000 resolution, but 5100x5100 is the border, when I cant see additional sharpness.

I dont know whats happening there, if I play @1680x1680 internal resolution, it looks like upscaled 800x800, not true 1680x1680.

software native vs hardware native
And this is native software mode vs hardware native (so nothing is upscaled on hardware mode). Picture is "small", because it has 512 resolution, but still you could see blury image on the right side (not to mention there's no bloom, shadows etc.), while software mode is perfectly sharp

Screenshots FULLRES
Here's full resolution 1050p screenshots (5MB each, compressed into just 3MB thanks to RAR). One is usung 1680p native resolution, other 5100p native. Watch them in FULLSCREEN, and you could clearly see not only improved sharpness but also TEXTURE quality (I dont know why that happen, but all of them looks so much better, its just unbelievable how much better this game looks compared to just 1680p native resolution, almost like different set of textures has been used). Also this "orange" sky glow looks bad in 1680 native, while on 5100 native this glow is almost gone (and I didnt use skipdraw hack!!!).


Quote:Anyway... "as it should look" is like what you get managing to connect your actual PS2 to your monitor
In software mode it already looks that way, maybe even better because theres always progressive output, and you could use HDMI, not old component. At first, my FPS is software mode was unplayable, but after setting more rendering threads FPS is much much better. So all games are playable now in software mode Smile (and all effects like fog, shadows are displayed as they should)
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