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Is ps2 emulation possible on the PS3?
#1
There's been a lot of debate about it. some say that it is impossible to emulate the ps2 without the Graphics synthesizer and emotion Engine. some say that it is because of the fast eDram, others say that it is definately possible. since you guys, the pcsx2 developers, know a lot more than me, and most other people arguing over this, what do you think? There have been patents for graphics synthesizer emulation and emotiong engine emulation on the Cell. The one for the graphics synthesizer might be questionable though. Do you think that it is possible to emulate everything at the same time though.

http://www.siliconera.com/2009/06/29/son...rocessors/

http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2009/08/03/p...on-on-ps3/

http://ftp.segapr.segaamerica.com/SEGA_N...s%20BH.doc

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessag...c=51471650

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessag...c=51472017


If it is possible, can you guys explain how, if not then why is it not possible. Also, does the fast speed of the eDram really make very big of a difference in making emulation not possible at all. I know that you guys said that sometimes 2d games can be harder to emulate because of the extremely high resolution backgrounds and stuff having to be streamed constantly at fast speeds. But I never thought that it was impossible. Especially seeing how the ps2 is emulated on pcs with slower ram than the ps2s eDRAM.
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#2
it is NO LONGER possible without a SERVICE MODE PS3, however it WAS, it worked fine, they removed it.

if that isn't what you were asking, I have no idea.
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#3
You're asking one question, 'Is it possible to emulate the PS2 on the PS3?', but I think you really mean 'Is it possible to emulate the PS2 on the PS3 at full speed?'. They are completely different questions and this difference should be recognized.

You are able to boot an alternative OS that allows the arbitrary execution of code on the non-Slim PS3's, therefore it's possible. This doesn't mean anything close to full-speed could every be attained, but it's most definitely possible.
It is worth noting that it's also, in principle, possible to emulate the PS2 on an abacus of sufficient size. In the world of computers, it's rare to find anything that's impossible.

But without direct access to the graphics hardware (which IIRC is off-limits to PS3 linux) getting full-speed is probably not possible. I would be pleasantly suprised if someone did it, but don't hold your breath.
"This thread should be closed immediately, it causes parallel imagination and multiprocess hallucination" --ardhi
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#4
(09-22-2009, 07:45 PM)Saiki Wrote: it is NO LONGER possible without a SERVICE MODE PS3, however it WAS, it worked fine, they removed it.

if that isn't what you were asking, I have no idea.

They removed ps2 backwards compatability from the ps3. They first simply removed the Emotion engine cpu from the ps3, so they emulated the emotion engine, and they used the ctual graphics synthesizer to achieve backwards compatability. In the new models of ps3, there are no ps2 parts in the ps3, so the only way possible to get ps2 compatability is to fully emulate the ps2. I'm asking if it is possible to do that on the ps3.
(09-22-2009, 08:05 PM)echosierra Wrote: You're asking one question, 'Is it possible to emulate the PS2 on the PS3?', but I think you really mean 'Is it possible to emulate the PS2 on the PS3 at full speed?'. They are completely different questions and this difference should be recognized.

You are able to boot an alternative OS that allows the arbitrary execution of code on the non-Slim PS3's, therefore it's possible. This doesn't mean anything close to full-speed could every be attained, but it's most definitely possible.
It is worth noting that it's also, in principle, possible to emulate the PS2 on an abacus of sufficient size. In the world of computers, it's rare to find anything that's impossible.

But without direct access to the graphics hardware (which IIRC is off-limits to PS3 linux) getting full-speed is probably not possible. I would be pleasantly suprised if someone did it, but don't hold your breath.

I'm not talking about through hacking methods or anything like that. Is it possible period. Like is it possible for sony to make a ps2 emulator for the ps3 to bring back ps2 backwards compatability even without the ps2 cpu and gpu. Or is the ps3 simply not strong enough.
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#5
well it is possible to put linux on your ps2 so the linux versions of pcsx2 might work

dunno havent tried it myself
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#6
(09-22-2009, 08:38 PM)bkwegoharder Wrote: I'm not talking about through hacking methods or anything like that. Is it possible period. Like is it possible for sony to make a ps2 emulator for the ps3 to bring back ps2 backwards compatability even without the ps2 cpu and gpu. Or is the ps3 simply not strong enough.

I thought you were referring to a user-supplied emulator, not a Sony-produced one. That changes pretty much everything.

The original 80GB NTSC PS3's had a PS2 software emulator that worked rather well. So it's completely possible for Sony to do it, but the smart money is on them selling that feature to PS3 Slim owners at a later date.
"This thread should be closed immediately, it causes parallel imagination and multiprocess hallucination" --ardhi
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#7
(09-22-2009, 09:03 PM)ChronicNL Wrote: well it is possible to put linux on your ps2 so the linux versions of pcsx2 might work

dunno havent tried it myself

ps2linux and ps3 linux do not have open GL, it is therefore impossible
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#8
(09-22-2009, 09:08 PM)echosierra Wrote:
(09-22-2009, 08:38 PM)bkwegoharder Wrote: I'm not talking about through hacking methods or anything like that. Is it possible period. Like is it possible for sony to make a ps2 emulator for the ps3 to bring back ps2 backwards compatability even without the ps2 cpu and gpu. Or is the ps3 simply not strong enough.

I thought you were referring to a user-supplied emulator, not a Sony-produced one. That changes pretty much everything.

The original 80GB NTSC PS3's had a PS2 software emulator that worked rather well. So it's completely possible for Sony to do it, but the smart money is on them selling that feature to PS3 Slim owners at a later date.

It had a software emulator for the emotion engine, not the graphics synthesizer. The graphic synthesizer chip was still on the ps3. They removed both the Emotion engine and graphics synthesizer from the newer ps3s so I'm asking if it is possible to emulate the ps2 without ANY parts of the ps2 in the ps3. Some people say that the ps3 is just not strong enough to emulate everything and that the eDram is too fast for the ps3 to emulate and that it doesn't have enough general computing power to emulate the ps2 completely. Others say that since the ps3 is similar to the ps2 in architecture(The vector processors) that it makes it possible. Any pcsx2 devs have any opinions?
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#9
Yeah, and it's been said before.
I believe it is *possible* to run ps2 games on the ps3 via an emulation layer.
That doesn't say anything about the speed though. So any argument about ram speed is moot here.

Oh, one more thing:
A ps2 is dirt cheap. Why bother sony with backwards compatibility demands?
I understand it'd be "nice to have", but is it a reason to add more (expensive) bloat to the ps3?
The Blu-ray support is bad enough. I wanted a game console (that I could afford), not a home media center..
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#10
It's not like the graphics synthesizer and emotion engine was adding much to the cost in the first place. I think that it was said that the price difference was only like 27 dollars. The main reason for them removing support was so people would spend more money buying ps3 games. If someone wants ps2 and ps3 games, then they'd have to pay like 400 dollars for the ps3 and ps2, if they had compatibility it would be like 300.
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