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JRPGs
#1
I wanna chat about jRPGs.
What do you think about old jRPGs vs new jRPGs?
I think voice-over is killing them. Or is it the quality of the plots got worse?
i loved FF 7,8,9. 10 was ok, 10-2 - horrible, 12 - kinda boring, but ok.
Last remnant - lost me after a few hours, but maybe i'll get back to it.
And at the same time i am playing in very old Grandia(text + few voices) and i feel more involved in the story! May be it is like reading the book? My mind is imagining the intonations, emotions that characters express through text. And that is making it more genuine and believable.
What do you think about it?

And also, you could list your favorite jRPGs list.
mine is final fantasy 8 (it was my first jRPG and i liked the adult style of it. i am hoping FF13 versus will be like it in some way)
Phenom II X4 940 3 Ghz / 8 gb RAM 800 / Geforce GTX 460 / win7 64
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#2
Just remember... nostalgia is a ***** and a whore. She'll tell you that games you used to play were a lot better, when really it's just the fond memories you have tied to games in your youth.

That said, I know nostalgia is the power behind some of my favorite games. Dragon Force for the Sega Saturn would be my favorite jRPG though it's more of a strat/rpg. Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6 are my favorite traditional jRPGs, FF8 was the last FF game I've truly enjoyed and sat all the way through... which reminds me... I haven't played either FF6 or 8 in ages... I should go do that some time.
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#3
well. i am playing grandia for the first time. and replayed ff8 month ago and it was very enjoyable.
i dont think something like nostalgia is preventing me from enjoying new games. Cause there are some brilliant games (but not jRPG, sadly)
Phenom II X4 940 3 Ghz / 8 gb RAM 800 / Geforce GTX 460 / win7 64
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#4
Dude, Dragon Force had a game before they were a band? Man they're so hard core!

Also I think FF10-2 was amazing Smile I loved the combo system, the fact you could pretty much change classes (EVEN DURING BATTLE), and the many different stories! It may have been linear if you played right through it, but over-all it's actually great.

My favorite FF is Final Fantasy 9. FF8 is good, but 9 is better. I didn't like 10 because it was too weird/couldn't get a "no-encounter" ability until very late in the game/only if you do side quests. Final Fantasy 12 was WAY TOO SHORT! =/ And the ending did not seem like a real ending at all. You go to that elevator thingie, fight some dude, then fight some other dude and it's over... not much of an end-boss at all.

I don't know the difference between jRPGs and RPGs =/ So I call them all RPGs.

My absolute favorite is Earth Bound though Smile It's the best. Don't know if that's considered a jRPG though...
Currently Playing on PCSX2: Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+ @ 2.1 Ghz and Nvidia GeForce 6150 LE (Playable isn't full speed)
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#5
Well, as long as it's an RPG and was developed in Japan, it qualifies as a jRPG. EarthBound appears to be the second game of a three game series, and the only one to make it's way to the us from Japan of the three, so it certainly qualifies...
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#6
No no no no no no no dear god no. Awesome game that a craptastic band copied the name of.

arcum: I'd expand that out even further... It doesn't necessarily have to have been made in japan...

A general guideline is that Japanese RPGs are usually pretty linear (not many branching paths of gameplay, though can have multiple endings), and follow the more traditional turn based battle system. The main characters are usually a set class/look and are their own being versus in western RPGs where you are generally playing you as a character.

Western RPGs tend to be a lot less linear with various points to change the story in some fairly substantial way. The main character is more customizable and is often done in a first person view (but not always) to simulate the real you being in the game universe. This is almost always accompanied by an open world where you can run around and do whatever you like. I'd most readily compare a lot of them to MMORPGs that you play by yourself.


The easiest way to compare the 2 styles would be jRPGs are like reading a novel where you play out the battles. You're mostly there for the ride and the decisions you make generally have very little effect on the story. Western RPGs are like choose your own adventure novels. You "read" to the end of a chapter, then you're given a choice between turning to page 10 and joining the rebels, or turning to page 24 and joining the evil organization.

Neither is necessarily better... but I generally like the former. The stories are generally more interesting, and I find it more fun to play another role where you see the main character grow and change as a result of their experiences, versus a western RPG where there is generally very little incentive to grow or change your main character.

To further needlessly extend the rant... I'll give you an example... The best example of a western RPG I've played that has this fault is the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic series. Don't get me wrong, love the games... That said, when most people play the game they usually play with their mindset in order. You either want to play the game through as the perfect good guy, the horrible evil guy, or you don't really care and you just pick options as they sound good. Nothing wrong with that, but in good stories you can't have that, it's boring. Imagine the star wars movies where Anakin never fell to the dark side, but was always the good guy. It becomes cartoonish when all there is is a new bad guy each movie.

While it's true you can force your characters to change in SW:KotOR... There is no incentive. If you murdered an entire settlement in the first half of the game, there is no great moment of realization or regret, you just force your character to change their actions and the most you'll get is a passing mention from a team mate.

That said, the trade off is that in a jRPG you really don't have control of your character. You're there for the ride and nothing more... so it really depends on which types of books you like to read Wink

/Rant end
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#7
Or to sum up in far fewer words:

jRPGs are narrative plots.
wRPGs are interactive plots.

Of course all games are 'interactive' -- this is strictly in the sense of the plotline of the game.

My theory having tried to develop various brands of RPGs in the past is that jRPGs tend to be better mainly because they're that much easier to develop. The workload of developing and playtesting a wRPG is exponentially difficult. With each choice offered to the gamer, the content of the game can increase drastically. Accounting for all player choices at every turn of a game becomes overwhelming at a point. So in the end if you have two RPGs with the same amount of dev time/effort applied, the jRPG will feel a lot more visually complete within the context of the story it provides, because while wRPG team spends their time playtesting and scripting things (half of which you as a gamer will probably never see), the jRPG team gets to focus on adding every bit of detail possible to the rather concrete path before them.

wRPGs were originally spurned mainly because devteams on PCs were high on coder/writer talent but low on artist talent. So to make up for a lack of scenery or visual acuity, and to capitalize on what they did have, they would put together extravagant multi-path plotlines and would factor in novel-like descriptions into in-game text, as well as just dialog; and typically only span a handful of key levels/maps (often re-visited many times during the game). jRPG teams for the consoles tend to have lots of cheap artist talent available, so they just stick to their guns of putting wicked visuals overtop a traditional narrative plot.
Jake Stine (Air) - Programmer - PCSX2 Dev Team
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#8
(12-09-2009, 08:13 PM)tohdom Wrote: I wanna chat about jRPGs.
What do you think about old jRPGs vs new jRPGs?
I think voice-over is killing them. Or is it the quality of the plots got worse?
i loved FF 7,8,9. 10 was ok, 10-2 - horrible, 12 - kinda boring, but ok.
Last remnant - lost me after a few hours, but maybe i'll get back to it.
And at the same time i am playing in very old Grandia(text + few voices) and i feel more involved in the story! May be it is like reading the book? My mind is imagining the intonations, emotions that characters express through text. And that is making it more genuine and believable.
What do you think about it?

Grandia 1 is just a good game Tongue2
While you're at it, try all the other (now) classics on the psx.
Lunar 1 and 2, Chrono Cross, Arc the Lad (1 and 2, loved them), Breath of Fire 3 (maybe 4, if you liked 3 a lot), Suikoden 1 and 2, etc, etc.
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#9
The entire Suikoden series is one of the best, and most under rated jRPG series if you ask me. Any of them are amazing. Although if you never played the series before probably best not to start with 4. It is sort of the black sheep of the series but I still enjoyed it.

Suikoden 5 in particular was amazing.
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#10
"Suikoden" - are they have same story or, like final fantasy, independent?

also, i wonder why Japanese make characters in their games look like Europeans?
Phenom II X4 940 3 Ghz / 8 gb RAM 800 / Geforce GTX 460 / win7 64
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