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PCSX2 motion handling
#1
This is the first emulator that I just can't get used to... I think the main problem is not with emulator itself, but how the PS2 hardware works, with the majority of the games using an interlaced video mode.

Consequently, the picture needs to be deinterlaced, introducing artifacts, and this is a major problem for me. That's because the movement of the picture is not the same compared to the real hardware.

If you are playing a 60fps game, for example, and keep spining the camera around, you will eventually get a jerky movement. The motion flow is not as smooth as it should be.

Anyone experimenting the same problem? Is this an expected behaviour?

By the way, my PC hardware is a Intel i5 3570k running at 4.5ghz + Geforce GTX 670 and I'm using Bob deinterlacer, which seems to be the better one.
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#2
^ What game/s are you playing? Not all games have to be deinterlaced like FF-X, FF-XII, Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2, MGS 3: SE, Tekken 5 and a lot more so your problem is not really universal.
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#3
If the game only outputs interlaced image, then the GS plugin can't magically turn it into progressive, and has to deinterlace, which does introduce artifacts. So either set the game to output a progressive image, if supported (usually codenamed 480p), or choose a deinterlace method which works best for you.

Config -> Video -> Plugin settings. Choose one of the bob deinterlace modes.

Bob deinterlace is the "purest" deinterlace method, but produces some shaking (bobbing, hence the name), though this can be somewhat mitigated by using higher resolutions (at the same config panel, e.g. x2 or x3). You can also switch deinterlace method by pressing F5 at the game window.
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#4
(08-07-2012, 09:43 AM)avih Wrote: If the game only outputs interlaced image, then the GS plugin can't magically turn it into progressive, and has to deinterlace, which does introduce artifacts. So either set the game to output a progressive image, if supported (usually codenamed 480p), or choose a deinterlace method which works best for you.

Config -> Video -> Plugin settings. Choose one of the bob deinterlace modes.

Bob deinterlace is the "purest" deinterlace method, but produces some shaking (bobbing, hence the name), though this can be somewhat mitigated by using higher resolutions (at the same config panel, e.g. x2 or x3). You can also switch deinterlace method by pressing F5 at the game window.

About the shaking produced by the bob deinterlacer, do you mean that the picture shakes just when the screen is moving or also with static screens?

I’m asking because there are some games that the flickering (shaking) is very noticeable with static screens when using bob… but with others games I can’t notice any flicker with static screens (using the same bob).

Also, when you say that the artifacts produced by bob is less noticeable using higher resolutions, do you mean only the internal resolution or the resolution of my display monitor is also important?
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#5
Shaking (bobbing up and down quickly) is more noticeable on static scenes than on moving scenes when the image is interlaced and you use bob-deinterlace. When you increase internal resolution (As I wrote: x2/x3/x4/etc) it becomes of lesser magnitude. Also, there are 2 "modes" of bob: bff and tff, one of them is the correct one and produce better image (depending on the game usually), but gsdx can't detect which one it is, so you have to manually choose it yourself.
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#6
OK. After testing more games, I reached the following conclusion: there is a very visible shaking when using bob tff (or bff) with a lot of games, even when using the internal resolution at 6x.

Oddly, others games looks perfect with bob, and I noticed that these games runs at 60fps (the framerate of the game itself, not the emulator). Is there any correlation between bob and 60fps?

Games that bob produces visible shaking generally use 30fps. In these games, just turning off the deinterlacer (using none) fix the problem and the results looks similar to bob (but without the shaking).

So, is it normal for a interlaced game to look better without using any deinterlacer?

In the end, with most interlaced games, I noticed that the picture looks fine without using any deinterlacer. But there are others games that looks much better with bob, without any shaking (usually games running at 60fps).

So, I was wondering about the reason...

By the way, besides bob tff, I also test bob bff, but I have yet to see a game that looks good with bob bff.

Thanks for answering.
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#7
(08-07-2012, 07:58 PM)avih Wrote: Shaking (bobbing up and down quickly) is more noticeable on static scenes than on moving scenes when the image is interlaced and you use bob-deinterlace. When you increase internal resolution (As I wrote: x2/x3/x4/etc) it becomes of lesser magnitude. Also, there are 2 "modes" of bob: bff and tff, one of them is the correct one and produce better image (depending on the game usually), but gsdx can't detect which one it is, so you have to manually choose it yourself.

One more question: is it possible to let my TV deal with the interlaced picture, instead of the emulator?
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#8
I wonder if PCSX2 could include better deinterlacer like Yadif?
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#9
(08-08-2012, 04:34 PM)tisurame Wrote: ...
In the end, with most interlaced games, I noticed that the picture looks fine without using any deinterlacer. But there are others games that looks much better with bob, without any shaking (usually games running at 60fps).
...

Yes, on many games, even if the image is originally interlaced, GSdx can display it properly as progressive, and for those cases no deinterlace is required, hence any deinterlce will degrade the image (bob will produce bobbing, and blend will produce blur). So it's a case of per-get settings. Most would work fine without any deinterlacing, some can be set to output progressive internally (480p etc) and some will require deinterlace to get rid of interlacing artifacts.

(08-08-2012, 04:39 PM)tisurame Wrote: One more question: is it possible to let my TV deal with the interlaced picture, instead of the emulator?

Haven't tried that, but I think not, because for that to happen the signal has to be perfectly interlaced, which I _think_ doesn't happen with GSdx. A more interesting question might me if it's possible for the GPU driver to deinterlace the image. It usually can do it (after some configuration) for video streams, but AFAIK it won't do it for 3D images... and also, it probably doesn't deinterlace for double-framerate.

(08-08-2012, 04:48 PM)naoan Wrote: I wonder if PCSX2 could include better deinterlacer like Yadif?

Good question, it's not impossible, but AFAIK there's no such current effort. Also, yadif, especially for double-framerate deinterlace, uses a considerable amount of CPU resources (as most other deinterlacers, except for bob and blend which are very simple).
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#10
(08-08-2012, 05:08 PM)avih Wrote: Yes, on many games, even if the image is originally interlaced, GSdx can display it properly as progressive, and for those cases no deinterlace is required, hence any deinterlce will degrade the image (bob will produce bobbing, and blend will produce blur). So it's a case of per-get settings. Most would work fine without any deinterlacing, some can be set to output progressive internally (480p etc) and some will require deinterlace to get rid of interlacing artifacts.

So, is GSdx actually automatically forcing progressive instead of interlaced, as if the game was internally running at 480p? Maybe in the same way that softwares like GSM (Graphics Synthesizer Mode Selector) does?

That's really cool.
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