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Refreshrate
#1
Lightbulb 
In emulog :
(UpdateVSyncRate) Mode Changed to NTSC.
... with user configured refresh rate: 15.00 Hz
(UpdateVSyncRate) FPS Limit Changed : 60.00 fps
(UpdateVSyncRate) Mode Changed to PAL.
... with user configured refresh rate: 12.50 Hz
(UpdateVSyncRate) FPS Limit Changed : 50.00 fps
(UpdateVSyncRate) Mode Changed to NTSC.
... with user configured refresh rate: 15.00 Hz
(UpdateVSyncRate) FPS Limit Changed : 60.00 fps
That happen when change value pcsx2_vm.ini
Framerate Ntsc=30,Pal=25 and limiter 200%. But when i change pcsx2_vm.ini Framerate Ntsc=120, pal=100 limiter 50%. In emulog :
(UpdateVSyncRate) Mode Changed to NTSC.
... with user configured refresh rate: 60.00 Hz
(UpdateVSyncRate) FPS Limit Changed : 60.00 fps
(UpdateVSyncRate) Mode Changed to PAL.
... with user configured refresh rate: 50.00 Hz
(UpdateVSyncRate) FPS Limit Changed : 50.00 fps
(UpdateVSyncRate) Mode Changed to NTSC.
... with user configured refresh rate: 60.00 Hz
(UpdateVSyncRate) FPS Limit Changed : 60.00 fps
My conclusion pcsx2 not use standrd PS2 refreshrate (ntsc=60Hz,pal=50Hz)but pcsx2 use half refreshrate or may be vary refresh rate?. And there mistaken wich change framerate=refreshrate changed too.
Coz when I change above pcsx_vm.ini framerate ntsc=120fps,pal=100fps in emulog written refreshrate ntsc=60Hz, pal=50Hz
when fullboot bios screen not shaking?it's about refreshrate.Thank you Smile. Please test it before comment( ^.^)
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#2
In order to help you further with your problem, please make sure the following are all provided.
  • Your hardware specs - CPU, Graphics Card, Memory, Operating System.
  • The version of PCSX2 you are using.
  • Any non default settings you are using.
  • What games you are trying to play and if you are playing them from ISO or DVD.

Thank You.
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#3
(04-12-2013, 06:58 AM)Rezard Wrote: In order to help you further with your problem, please make sure the following are all provided.
  • Your hardware specs - CPU, Graphics Card, Memory, Operating System.
  • The version of PCSX2 you are using.
  • Any non default settings you are using.
  • What games you are trying to play and if you are playing them from ISO or DVD.

Thank You.

I fear he's not asking for help with a problem Smile

@Billy

Of course PCSX2 does't use PS2 RR, it's physically impossible. All it tries to do is running at 60FPS (for NTSC of course) which is like emulating that "base" at the actual console device.

Then comes actual PS2 FPS which needs to be emulated also (together with every other thing like game's logical flow and synchronism between the different modules). The problem is PCSX2 can't have FPS inside FPS, so it's actual FPS must include that PS2 FPS kind like the "motion pace"

So under PCSX2

FPS - means emulating the base refresh rate of PS2
Motion pace - means the position the moving objects are tied with the above FPS, frame by frame, and can be seen as the "actual PS2 FPS".

That's the reason some games may feel laggy and sluggish when certain speed hacks are applied. Although PCSX2 FPS indeed increases, the motion pace at the frames doesn't... and then that FPS is incorrectly but colloquially called "fake".

The reason for the log showing the emulator's attempts to identify and achieve the expected values for PAL and NTSC have nothing to do with what you changed at the ini, those values at the ini are references and not indicator of actual FPS.

At this point should be understood already that approach of changing the most basic value, which is not dictated by the emulator, not even by the console but by very precise and defined standard can't be good idea to reliable emulation.

Besides, not only PS2 itself relies on that base being stable as the games are developed in that same confidence. That's so critical than a game originally designed for NTSC is ported to PAL it pass for a complete resync of everything happening in it. That's something that can be done only from the source code, it's not something the emulator could ever hope to accomplish.

Then you come with the idea that changing that base is the way to go, not even as a speedhack, in your PMs you left clear you believe to have found a "real" and reliable way to increase the emulator's performance. Reason I stopped replying the PMs after attempts to have you understanding this.

Once you change the reference you compromised the syncs already, when you achieve the higher FPS by relaxing the limit the sync is yet lost or distorted. It may work or seen like working but is unreliable and needs compensation in many other parameters case by case, when and if such compensation is possible ever.

Achieving 60 FPS was never a problem for PCSX2, the problem is only achieving it with reliable emulation.
Imagination is where we are truly real
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#4
lol

I was kinda more just doing it to bump it after moving.

But I see you got this under control, nosisab. Smile
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#5
Hmm... I understand now pcsx2 never emulate refreshrate (Hz) but refreshrate(Fps). I tought if changing refreshrate(Hz) could help deinterlacing problem.
It seems some games need tricky setting framerate to achieve full speed like Red Star,The(U). You could find here :
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Share-per-game-setting
May be some other games too. And also I found setting way to achieve speed like real PS2 console when you already achieve (ntsc=60fps, pal=50) but games feel slow e.g Bomberman Hardball (E) and many other. I will post my setting soon if thread above being tested and commented Smile

(04-12-2013, 09:52 AM)Rezard Wrote: lol

I was kinda more just doing it to bump it after moving.

But I see you got this under control, nosisab. Smile

thanks for spamming Smile. I know I only noob. And I know you can achieve all games at full speed
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#6
(04-13-2013, 03:21 PM)billyash Wrote: Hmm... I understand now pcsx2 never emulate refreshrate (Hz) but refreshrate(Fps). I tought if changing refreshrate(Hz) could help deinterlacing problem.
It seems some games need tricky setting framerate to achieve full speed like Red Star,The(U). You could find here :
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Share-per-game-setting
May be some other games too. And also I found setting way to achieve speed like real PS2 console when you already achieve (ntsc=60fps, pal=50) but games feel slow e.g Bomberman Hardball (E) and many other. I will post my setting soon if thread above being tested and commented Smile


thanks for spamming Smile. I know I only noob. And I know you can achieve all games at full speed

Billy, since the start I support your attempts in getting better performance for slow machines, and that hack is valid for this purpose... just it is kind of last desperate attempt and should not be tried if not absolutely needed and should not ever be proposed to be used on more powerful machines where the other, less drastic hacks are enough.

From that other thread about a pool of ini setups is already a strong reason for that hack not becoming "official" and actually being removed from the GUI the way to change the base.

About Hz and FPS, wel... the refresh rate is ultimately done at hardware, it's function is providing the very "empty canvas" where the image is to be printed at given rate. RR itself is not continuous, what would be ideal but a fixated value which must be kept at all cost because not only the image would become distorted inside the canvas but the very canvas would be distorted otherwise, a very bad issue. So, the RR has not relation with the image, it's only function is to provide the base where the image will be ultimately shown.

The FPS primarily defines how many times a complete frame (with an image on it) is sampled per second, even then it does not define, necessarily, how the action will develop, the speed it occurs (in PC that "motion pace" is relatively independent on the FPS, at PS2 there is a stronger relation due to using that base RR (on the original device I mean) as a reference for syncing.

The same way in a PC the FPS is pushed on the screen under the refresh rate, is how it happens on PS2 also. PCSX2 has not how to create actual refresh rate, that's job for the video driver and tied with the monitor capacities, no normal program ever touches RR. What PCSX2 does is providing FPS "emulating" that PS2 base but then needs to deal with the actual PS2 FPS also... and there is no way to have FPS inside FPS... so what happens is the pace of action becomes the "content" of every frame on that PCSX2 FPS, and if the emulation loses sync, even if PCSX2 FPS is kept stable, the actual image changing and movements may become outpaced.

All that matters for PCSX2 is FPS... and how it tries to provide a base for the emulation... but only FPS makes sense for PCSX2, RR is out of question.

Edit: a quick and dirt analogy on what happens if the refresh rate is messed... it's like you draw (or don't) a picture on a paper sheet (the canvas) and them you crumple that sheet and very well can throw it at the nearest waste bin Smile
Imagination is where we are truly real
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#7
100 % agree with u nosisab.less hacks better!!
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#8
(04-13-2013, 04:21 PM)nosisab Ken Keleh Wrote: Billy, since the start I support your attempts in getting better performance for slow machines, and that hack is valid for this purpose... just it is kind of last desperate attempt and should not be tried if not absolutely needed and should not ever be proposed to be used on more powerful machines where the other, less drastic hacks are enough.

From that other thread about a pool of ini setups is already a strong reason for that hack not becoming "official" and actually being removed from the GUI the way to change the base.

About Hz and FPS, wel... the refresh rate is ultimately done at hardware, it's function is providing the very "empty canvas" where the image is to be printed at given rate. RR itself is not continuous, what would be ideal but a fixated value which must be kept at all cost because not only the image would become distorted inside the canvas but the very canvas would be distorted otherwise, a very bad issue. So, the RR has not relation with the image, it's only function is to provide the base where the image will be ultimately shown.

The FPS primarily defines how many times a complete frame (with an image on it) is sampled per second, even then it does not define, necessarily, how the action will develop, the speed it occurs (in PC that "motion pace" is relatively independent on the FPS, at PS2 there is a stronger relation due to using that base RR (on the original device I mean) as a reference for syncing.

The same way in a PC the FPS is pushed on the screen under the refresh rate, is how it happens on PS2 also. PCSX2 has not how to create actual refresh rate, that's job for the video driver and tied with the monitor capacities, no normal program ever touches RR. What PCSX2 does is providing FPS "emulating" that PS2 base but then needs to deal with the actual PS2 FPS also... and there is no way to have FPS inside FPS... so what happens is the pace of action becomes the "content" of every frame on that PCSX2 FPS, and if the emulation loses sync, even if PCSX2 FPS is kept stable, the actual image changing and movements may become outpaced.

All that matters for PCSX2 is FPS... and how it tries to provide a base for the emulation... but only FPS makes sense for PCSX2, RR is out of question.

Edit: a quick and dirt analogy on what happens if the refresh rate is messed... it's like you draw (or don't) a picture on a paper sheet (the canvas) and them you crumple that sheet and very well can throw it at the nearest waste bin Smile
yes, i will stop asking about RR.
Like i said in first post on that thread above . That setting best for laptop and weak machine.
I wish playground frameskip was reintroduced (frame skip if less than)that really could help big boost on many games, especially games that run faster on software mode e.g klonoa 2 lunateas dream. If we could combine setting between Framerate and and frameskip, there will best big boost.
I know frameskip caused issue but if we input mild frameskip it would be nice. I think real ps2 console do frameskip to Smile
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#9
Blink

I think you misunderstood, friend.
Moving your thread and bumping it to the top was an effort to help you. Smile
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#10
(04-14-2013, 05:19 AM)Rezard Wrote: Blink

I think you misunderstood, friend.
Moving your thread and bumping it to the top was an effort to help you. Smile

im apologize for it coz i often get spamming caused by my weak machine Smile
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