08-17-2010, 07:44 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2010, 08:02 AM by nosisab Ken Keleh.)
One the most misunderstood concept about security, permissions and access rights in Windows derives from mistaking the UserAccount for the application it runs.
Before getting directly to the point let us make an analogy about the concept of free (as in Freedom) and proprietary software:
Proprietary - means the owner does have all rights and normally means everyone else have none or restricted.
Free - Means everyone has rights and no one has exclusive rights.
This analogy is precious to understand several issues concerning access rights issues being repeatedly reported.
All those special folders are 'proprietary' to someone or something for Windows, that includes the C:\Program Files and the special case of the Documents folder.
When a common folder is created it can be seen somewhat as Free for all at some extent, it means the creator has all basic accesses, the registered users have most of them and guest accounts only limited access.
The main implication being almost anything (or anyone) will be allowed to run in these folders without being chased down by the OS.
Now, by taking over specific ownership of the folder and giving himself full and special accesses effectively equate turning it "proprietary" and here lies the reason for the thread title and the thread itself.
The mistake lies in believing than since the user is "all might" on that folder he should not have problems running things there. But that falls down because applications aren't the user, since they are running in a 'protected' environment it can have some special and internal tasks it needs to perform denied by the OS.
To worsen things the messages will not point the real cause for the issue.
To understand the application is not the user it's enough to recall as you need to allow or prevent some them on the firewall access for example, it's done at the application level and not the user level.
Let's use a practical example, one already reported in the forum and concerned the PXSX2 running from inside the "Documents" folder (notice that folder is the user's property, it's meant to be so, no one wants anyone else messing with our things, right?).
The issue is known by the message it generates, it's something like:
That message is misleading, it seems to point there "is" a permission violation or access deny.
But indeed it means there "was" a permission violation before. The reason xyz.tmp could not be copied is because it Could not be created, there is nothing to copy to abc.ini...
And that was because the application although inherits the user's privileges it is not the user. The OS treat it as an invader, an intruder and a threat in that folder and prevent it to perform tasks not directly involving the user.
The meaning of all that is these misunderstandings tends to accumulate, the "Solutions" like messing the permission mechanics are illusory and particular, they are only workarounds that can't grant never another particular issue will arise for the same application, let alone the problem will repeat itself every time a new application is installed in those protected folders.
And remember, taking over ownership on a folder just make it "proprietary" and bound to the issues described above. At some point the whole system becomes unstable, erratic and unforeseeable, not seldom needing the infamous format reinstall Windows.
Think about it. Much more simple than fixing things is not creating them broken from the start.
Install games inside a normal folder, a FREE folder, one that is not plagued by the "property" concept where it's not really needed.
Before getting directly to the point let us make an analogy about the concept of free (as in Freedom) and proprietary software:
Proprietary - means the owner does have all rights and normally means everyone else have none or restricted.
Free - Means everyone has rights and no one has exclusive rights.
This analogy is precious to understand several issues concerning access rights issues being repeatedly reported.
All those special folders are 'proprietary' to someone or something for Windows, that includes the C:\Program Files and the special case of the Documents folder.
When a common folder is created it can be seen somewhat as Free for all at some extent, it means the creator has all basic accesses, the registered users have most of them and guest accounts only limited access.
The main implication being almost anything (or anyone) will be allowed to run in these folders without being chased down by the OS.
Now, by taking over specific ownership of the folder and giving himself full and special accesses effectively equate turning it "proprietary" and here lies the reason for the thread title and the thread itself.
The mistake lies in believing than since the user is "all might" on that folder he should not have problems running things there. But that falls down because applications aren't the user, since they are running in a 'protected' environment it can have some special and internal tasks it needs to perform denied by the OS.
To worsen things the messages will not point the real cause for the issue.
To understand the application is not the user it's enough to recall as you need to allow or prevent some them on the firewall access for example, it's done at the application level and not the user level.
Let's use a practical example, one already reported in the forum and concerned the PXSX2 running from inside the "Documents" folder (notice that folder is the user's property, it's meant to be so, no one wants anyone else messing with our things, right?).
The issue is known by the message it generates, it's something like:
Code:
"could not copy xyz.tmp to abc.ini"That message is misleading, it seems to point there "is" a permission violation or access deny.
But indeed it means there "was" a permission violation before. The reason xyz.tmp could not be copied is because it Could not be created, there is nothing to copy to abc.ini...
And that was because the application although inherits the user's privileges it is not the user. The OS treat it as an invader, an intruder and a threat in that folder and prevent it to perform tasks not directly involving the user.
The meaning of all that is these misunderstandings tends to accumulate, the "Solutions" like messing the permission mechanics are illusory and particular, they are only workarounds that can't grant never another particular issue will arise for the same application, let alone the problem will repeat itself every time a new application is installed in those protected folders.
And remember, taking over ownership on a folder just make it "proprietary" and bound to the issues described above. At some point the whole system becomes unstable, erratic and unforeseeable, not seldom needing the infamous format reinstall Windows.
Think about it. Much more simple than fixing things is not creating them broken from the start.
Install games inside a normal folder, a FREE folder, one that is not plagued by the "property" concept where it's not really needed.
Imagination is where we are truly real
