Core i7 notebooks and pcsx2: SLOW
#21
In layman's terms, your're saying that modern CPUs have an in-built throttling mechanism that is not governed by bios functions....which of course, is not modifiable by mere mortals.
Reply

Sponsored links

#22
(11-15-2009, 11:21 AM)mackoyski Wrote: In layman's terms, your're saying that modern CPUs have an in-built throttling mechanism that is not governed by bios functions....which of course, is not modifiable by mere mortals.

Pretty much.

Or maybe the BIOS has control, but doesn't expose it to the user. I'd have to sit and stare at whatever incarnation of the x86 spec Intel built the i7 to for a while to really know, but I'd just as well assume that's the case.
"This thread should be closed immediately, it causes parallel imagination and multiprocess hallucination" --ardhi
Reply
#23
shoegazer:
Try using GSdx software rendering, tell it to use 5 or 6 rendering threads.
Reply
#24
(11-15-2009, 08:04 AM)Air Wrote: If I sound frustrated, it's because I am. I work very hard to write proper high-performance parallel/threaded code that, on a desktop machine, runs using less power and with higher performance than other lazier (and more common) methods of threading. Unfortunately CPU-level power-saving technology just hasn't caught up yet, and the internal heuristics for measuring CPU load depend on apps either being simple single-threaded, or simple multi-threaded.

For what it's worth the new 0.9.7 version (when it's released) will be even more likely to run at 1.7ghz rather than 2.8 ghz. But on the bright side, it might also allow the i7 to kick into Turbo mode when using the Folding@Home trick. Tongue2

I can appreciate your frustration, and it makes total sense now that you've explained it.

I did try the folding@home trick; I already had it installed and just needed to invoke it while testing. This MAY sound odd, but it actually made performance worse - I noticed that with f@h and pcsx2 on, CPU-Z reported that the CPU core was being throttled down to 1-1.2ghz the entire time. The test game was Tekken 4, and it reported ~ 25-30fps according to fraps. I turned f@h off, and once again CPU-Z reported that the CPU had resumed previous behavior; i.e. fluctuating from 1.5ghz to 3ghz. Tekken 4 went back to 30-35fps. On my c2d 2.66ghz notebook, Tekken 4 (PAL) runs at a full 50fps without any problems (Edit: actually to be fair, with Fraps it runs between 40-45fps, so I'd say about 10fps faster on average). I would think that I could *occasionally* get full 50fps on the core i7 whenever Turbo Boost kicks in to 2.8-3ghz, since that's beyond the speed of my current c2d, but it's not, so whatever.

I should mention that the latest version of CPU-Z gives you no ability to monitor each core clock; it only reports the total results for the "core 0" clock, which I take to be a composite of all the cores.

Regardless, I guess it doesn't matter - your original point still stands that until Intel gets their collective sh!t together to develop a CPU capable of properly handling apps that take full advantage of threading, pcsx2 will just get slower and slower. Notebook users will be increasingly SOL and will have to hold on to their c2d notebooks as long as they can (as I had suggested in my original post). Personally, I would just buy a desktop rig, but I need a high-performance notebook for other reasons, and it's actually more economical for me to just buy one system than two high-powered units each for different reasons. As for this core i7 notebook, I'll be sending it straight back to the manufacturer.

If it's any consolation Jake, Dolphin suffers from the same issue. Games like Metroid Prime run so slowly on the new core i7 platform it isn't even
funny. I suspect they too are taking full advantage of threading in the interest of squeezing out more performance.

Thanks again.
(11-15-2009, 11:50 AM)rama Wrote: shoegazer:
Try using GSdx software rendering, tell it to use 5 or 6 rendering threads.

Interesting suggestion, thanks Rama. I tried it with six cores but unfortunately didn't see much of a difference - the test game "Tekken 4" ran at roughly the same 30-35fps as before (I'm surprised it even ran that fast given that it was software rendering). One interesting difference was that this time the CPU utilization on the cores shot up to 100% utilization according to Win7 performance monitor (you may recall that with hardware rendering I'm getting about 10%). I switched to four cores, and got 80% (with the expected speed decrease in the game). I then switched to eight cores (since I am supposed to have four physical and four virtual cores with Clarksfield/i7) and everything ground to a halt once the game started - for whatever reason it must have exceeded the cores' ability to handle the load.

Thoughts?
Reply
#25
Shoegazer, try this:

http://www.diefer.de/speedswitchxp/
Reply
#26
I think the problem could be due to overheating. If the speed drops when there is full load, it can only mean that the CPU is throttling itself so that it would not burn a hole in the base of you laptop and flow out in the form of molten metal. Seems to me that Dell has really f-d up the cooling system, that does not allow the processor to be fully utilised. It is probably the case with PCSX2 which would fully stress the CPU, so even the load is high, the speed will drop (that explains speed changes that CPUZ reports). Try to monitor temperatures. There are many tools that allow you to see the temperatures in real time. I really like CoreTemp:

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

Try it, and see. If the temps go over 70, then there is your problem., because laptops can not dissipate heat as quickly, so bios and probably the chip is made to throttle at even lower temperatures. (In my desktop, 920 @ 3.2GHz operates at 72-74 under heavy load of 8 threads, but I have TurboMode disabled, speed step enabled, and I have no problems with pcsx2 behaviour).
i7 @ 3.2Ghz /w Noctua
6GB Dominator 1600Mhz
5770 Vapor-X
1.5 TB Raid 5 /w 3ware 9650SE

Reply
#27
70C is okay, especially since this is a notebook cpu. They can take more heat and they get hotter than desktop cpus. 100C is the immediate danger zone but it is good to stay below 80C for longevity.
Reply
#28
(11-15-2009, 07:08 PM)mackoyski Wrote: Shoegazer, try this:

http://www.diefer.de/speedswitchxp/

Speedswitch is exclusively for XP. This is a Win7 system, and I would want it to stay that way. Wink I've tried some of the tools on Diefer before and I've found them to be quite good; however he hasn't updated his site, or his tools, in years.
Reply
#29
Ok, further info. The Tj Max according to intel is 100'C. (pages 51-55 could be of interest http://download.intel.com/design/process...320765.pdf ). So the CPU should NEVER exceed 100'C. If it does, the protection should kick in. But this is the hardware of the cpu. Dell could have also programmed something in the bios as well.
i7 @ 3.2Ghz /w Noctua
6GB Dominator 1600Mhz
5770 Vapor-X
1.5 TB Raid 5 /w 3ware 9650SE

Reply
#30
(11-15-2009, 07:10 PM)mantasuk Wrote: I think the problem could be due to overheating. If the speed drops when there is full load, it can only mean that the CPU is throttling itself so that it would not burn a hole in the base of you laptop and flow out in the form of molten metal. Seems to me that Dell has really f-d up the cooling system, that does not allow the processor to be fully utilised. It is probably the case with PCSX2 which would fully stress the CPU, so even the load is high, the speed will drop (that explains speed changes that CPUZ reports). Try to monitor temperatures. There are many tools that allow you to see the temperatures in real time. I really like CoreTemp:

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

Try it, and see. If the temps go over 70, then there is your problem., because laptops can not dissipate heat as quickly, so bios and probably the chip is made to throttle at even lower temperatures. (In my desktop, 920 @ 3.2GHz operates at 72-74 under heavy load of 8 threads, but I have TurboMode disabled, speed step enabled, and I have no problems with pcsx2 behaviour).

Thanks. I use HWMonitor usually but tried this one anyway. All of my cores remain below 65 degrees C the entire time I'm testing Tekken4, and getting the slow speeds. So there doesn't appear to be any heat-related throttling at all.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)