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Emulated PS2 BIOS like bleem! VGS or ePSXe?
#1
Hallo PCSX2 Community,

Bleem! and VGS won all cases in court and they did not need a PS BIOS. In the Case Sony vs Connectrix ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/ca...3d_596.htm ) Connectrix reversed Engineered the BIOS to emulate the BIOS so the user does not supply BIOS.

You did not need to supply a BIOS for Bleem! either. 

So it should be possible to make an emulator which is not relying on a BIOS legally.

What is the problem to accomplish this for a PS2 Emulator?

Greetings
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#2
Because we would need to make an HLE bios ourselves.
Someone started it long ago, but it has never been finished.
CPU : I7 2600K Oc'ed @ 4.2Ghz
Mobo : Intel P67 southbridge
GPU : NVIDIA Geforce GTX 750 Ti
RAM : 6 Go
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#3
(07-05-2018, 11:43 AM)jesalvein Wrote: Because we would need to make an HLE bios ourselves.
Someone started it long ago, but it has never been finished.

Is there a reason why there is no interest in a HLE/OSS Replacement BIOS?
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#4
no time to do so, probably ?
but if you want to contribute, then no problem, you're more than welcome.

Keep in mind one thing though : it's a hard task to achieve and get the same compatibility as the one you get with oiriginal bios
CPU : I7 2600K Oc'ed @ 4.2Ghz
Mobo : Intel P67 southbridge
GPU : NVIDIA Geforce GTX 750 Ti
RAM : 6 Go
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#5
Emulation comes in one of two flavors. LLE, Low Level Emulation, is where you take the original software/firmware via game/BIOS dumps, use JIT recompilers to translate it into PC compatible instructions, and then execute it. This is currently what PCSX2 does across the board. HLE, High Level Emulation on the other hand, is when you take the software/firmware, reverse engineer it to find out it's purposes and how it behaves, and then build your own, completely different code base in a high level language that imitates it's behaviors. So basically, where LLE just requires a BIOS dump and a JIT recompiler, HLE means spending countless hours rooting through, in the PS2's case since it's BIOS was built to handle two CPUs at once, MIPS 3 and 4 instructions for the EE, and MIPS 1 instructions for the IOP, as well as any other subsystems or chips on board that may make BIOS callouts or possibly have the PS2 equivalent of POST checks. Add in the fact that Sony went through several motherboard and BIOS revisions, e.g. moving the GS from a dedicated chip to putting it on board the EE die, plus when the slims came around they got rid of the R3000A and started emulating it on another CPU, it's a little bit of a challenge to say the least. Possible, but a challenge. There aren't as many devs walking around as some people would like to think, so it's been a bit less of a priority when there are still games having graphics problems that are fixable with much less reaching.
Problems? Check out the development builds for the latest updates.

Mobo: ASUS Prime Z370-A
CPU: Intel i7-8700K (3.7 GHz)
RAM: G.Skill TridentZ, 2x8 GB DDR4 (3000 MHz)
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 Ti FTW2 (8 GB)
OS: Windows 10 Pro (64 bit)

Oh yeah Red Pandas are cool too.


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#6
Hey all,
I just joined to throw my two cents about this topic and future topics regarding the emulator.

Also if you used an HLE BIOS instead of a BIOS from the actual system and go it working with the same compatibility as an actual PS2 BIOS it could cause an issue with the fonts that the game uses by using a custom look alike font that would make the text look misaligned and some times not display correctly since the game uses a specific font. Look at the Dolphin emulator(Wii/Gamecube) for example with Star Fox Assault there is an issue with the text not aligning correctly because of the HLE BIOS using a different font and to fix it you need to dump the actual Game Cube BIOS to fix this. This could be annoying for some users who want a close 1:1 as they can get while playing.
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#7
(07-05-2018, 11:40 AM)SepPS3 Wrote: Hallo PCSX2 Community,

Bleem! and VGS won all cases in court and they did not need a PS BIOS. In the Case Sony vs Connectrix ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/ca...3d_596.htm ) Connectrix reversed Engineered the BIOS to emulate the BIOS so the user does not supply BIOS.

You did not need to supply a BIOS for Bleem! either. 

So it should be possible to make an emulator which is not relying on a BIOS legally.

What is the problem to accomplish this for a PS2 Emulator?

Greetings

The programmers too busy to even produce a stable release how would they do emulated bios.
CPU : I7 6700 3.4 Ghz
GPU : Gigabyte Geforce GTX 1050 TI
SPU : Realtek High Definition Audio
RAM : 16 GB
Os : Windows 10 64 Bit
Emulator : PCSX2 1.5 
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#8
(07-06-2018, 05:33 PM)teots Wrote: The programmers can't even produce a stable release how would they do emulated bios.

How nice of you to say considering we don't get paid to do anything...
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#9
(07-06-2018, 05:33 PM)teots Wrote: The programmers can't even produce a stable release how would they do emulated bios.

Did I stutter when I said there were not as many developers walking around as some like to think?

HLE BIOS has been on the back burner for a long time because of the gigantic queue of other open issues and pull requests on GitHub. Of course it's not going to happen right away.

A stable release has been in discussion for quite a while, just not in the places you may expect. We've been slowly working towards getting the next one out, but a stable release means freezing feature PRs, resolving regressions, and wrapping everything up so that it is truly stable. We don't have an ETA, because it's still a work in progress.

And again, there's not as many bodies as people think, with as much time as people think, willing to appease every demand of every keyboard warrior making requests.
Problems? Check out the development builds for the latest updates.

Mobo: ASUS Prime Z370-A
CPU: Intel i7-8700K (3.7 GHz)
RAM: G.Skill TridentZ, 2x8 GB DDR4 (3000 MHz)
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 Ti FTW2 (8 GB)
OS: Windows 10 Pro (64 bit)

Oh yeah Red Pandas are cool too.


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#10
(07-06-2018, 05:33 PM)teots Wrote: The programmers can't even produce a stable release how would they do emulated bios.

Besides giving fake advices, i suggest you stop acting like an ass.
if at least you had a few skill in anything, we could tolerate you giving your opinions using this kind of tone.

But honestly, don't be arrogant when you don't have anything you can be proud of.

Thanks.
CPU : I7 2600K Oc'ed @ 4.2Ghz
Mobo : Intel P67 southbridge
GPU : NVIDIA Geforce GTX 750 Ti
RAM : 6 Go
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