Help me build a system
#11
(01-28-2010, 02:56 PM)Syberproxy Wrote: Sorry but i dont really buy your C2D 3.2 = AMD 3.4. That may be true to older architecture but as far as Athlon II goes a C2D Ghz is right now just the same as a AMD one. I repeat a C2D not a i5 or i7 architecture. if you were talking about the new ones then you are just about right.

no, I was talking about C2D vs Athlon II. as I said multiple times before - yes, Athlon IIs (as well as Phenoms) are great in normal desktop usage and modern, native gaming. however, in complex and demanding computational tasks they are inferior, and pcsx2 is one of such tasks. other examples may be MAME, 3D rendering (like in Maya or 3D Studio) or h264 encoding.

since this is a pcsx2 forum and we're mostly interested in pcsx2's performance, it's only fair we shouldn't recommend AMD processors unless dictated by the asker's wallet.

sure, you can get great performance from Athlon II in pcsx2, but you can get even better with similarly clocked C2D for a few bucks more.

and I'd reccomend Athlon II to a prospective buyer who's low on cash, since they're not that bad at OC. but OP wants a quad core and Phenoms are even worse overclockers than AIIs. he'd be really lucky if he got 4,0 GHz from that Black he mentioned (3,6-3,7 seems a more likely stable top), and even with that he may hit a few bumps down the pcsx2's performance road. with Athlon II it's simply much more feasible and really cheap (though still not as robust as with C2Ds).

(01-28-2010, 02:56 PM)Syberproxy Wrote: Well the Problem with Intel MoBo is that it has a limit of 1333 Mhz FSB on my board while this cheap 740G has none.

yeah, good P45 boards aren't cheap. but they let you do wonders in return. ;)
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#12
thats a bit more expensive than i was hoping for. perhaps you can recommend a dual core cpu that would run *most* games sufficiently.

perhaps someone can recommend a video card with HDMI output(s) as well
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#13
(01-28-2010, 09:45 PM)nicknameeazye Wrote: thats a bit more expensive than i was hoping for. perhaps you can recommend a dual core cpu that would run *most* games sufficiently.

perhaps someone can recommend a video card with HDMI output(s) as well

all modern video cards have HDMI outputs. it's called DVI ;). it's the same standard, only with different plugs and no audio, nothing a cheap converter won't solve.

if you want a dual core, you can get either an e7400 ($120) and an Asus P5Q Pro ($120) and overclock it to 4 GHz (i can't think of a game that wont run well on this), or get an Athlon II 250 ($65) and overclock it to 3,9 GHz. it's a bit harder than getting the e7400 to 4 GHz (a pity there are no Athlon II Blacks ;), but doable.

if you still want a quad, that Phenom you wanted won't be bad at all, just a little worse than the Athlon II. you get 4 cores, and 3,6 GHz is still respectable in pcsx2 terms with only the most demanding games not running full speed. also, unlocked multiplier is great. theoretically you could get it to ~4 GHz, but that would require some luck on your side (and something like Asus M4A78T-E ($130) for a mobo), since all the chips on the market differ a bit from each other, most will stop at about 3,7 GHz, but there have been quite a bit of reports of getting 4 GHz with the 955. then you would have the best thing you can get for this money, performance in pcsx2 would be just a tiny bit worse than the e7400 (again, can't think of games that would take a hit from that), and you'd get a great quad core for everything else.

all in all, your choice, just remember to buy that cooler. ;)
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#14
(01-29-2010, 02:04 AM)idn Wrote:
(01-28-2010, 09:45 PM)nicknameeazye Wrote: thats a bit more expensive than i was hoping for. perhaps you can recommend a dual core cpu that would run *most* games sufficiently.

perhaps someone can recommend a video card with HDMI output(s) as well

all modern video cards have HDMI outputs. it's called DVI Wink. it's the same standard, only with different plugs and no audio, nothing a cheap converter won't solve.

if you want a dual core, you can get either an e7400 ($120) and an Asus P5Q Pro ($120) and overclock it to 4 GHz (i can't think of a game that wont run well on this), or get an Athlon II 250 ($65) and overclock it to 3,9 GHz. it's a bit harder than getting the e7400 to 4 GHz (a pity there are no Athlon II Blacks Wink, but doable.

if you still want a quad, that Phenom you wanted won't be bad at all, just a little worse than the Athlon II. you get 4 cores, and 3,6 GHz is still respectable in pcsx2 terms with only the most demanding games not running full speed. also, unlocked multiplier is great. theoretically you could get it to ~4 GHz, but that would require some luck on your side (and something like Asus M4A78T-E ($130) for a mobo), since all the chips on the market differ a bit from each other, most will stop at about 3,7 GHz, but there have been quite a bit of reports of getting 4 GHz with the 955. then you would have the best thing you can get for this money, performance in pcsx2 would be just a tiny bit worse than the e7400 (again, can't think of games that would take a hit from that), and you'd get a great quad core for everything else.

all in all, your choice, just remember to buy that cooler. Wink
I think you are a little confused about Athlon II, Athlon, Phenom, and Phenom II.
AMD Athlon II 245 @ 3.55ghz, 9600GT @730mhz 1115mhz, vista sp2 32bit
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#15
(01-29-2010, 02:30 AM)CKL Wrote: I think you are a little confused about Athlon II, Athlon, Phenom, and Phenom II.

I assume you mean performance-wise. no, I am not. check this recent post by Air, he summarizes it better than I do: http://forums.pcsx2.net/thread-12629-pos...l#pid95656
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#16
Phenom and Phenom II are different. What nicknameeazye is/was expecting to get is a Phenom II. Generally speaking Phenom II is a superior version of athlon II.
AMD Athlon II 245 @ 3.55ghz, 9600GT @730mhz 1115mhz, vista sp2 32bit
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#17
(01-29-2010, 02:39 AM)CKL Wrote: Phenom and Phenom II are different. What nicknameeazye is/was expecting to get is a Phenom II. Generally speaking Phenom II is a superior version of athlon II.

yes, I didn't wrote "that Phenom II you wanted", because it was shorter without the "II", but it's kinda obvious that I was referring to the Phenom II 955 Black from the first post and everything I wrote was about that model. I even wrote "955", and there is no Phenom I 955 Black. ;p
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#18
(01-29-2010, 02:43 AM)idn Wrote:
(01-29-2010, 02:39 AM)CKL Wrote: Phenom and Phenom II are different. What nicknameeazye is/was expecting to get is a Phenom II. Generally speaking Phenom II is a superior version of athlon II.

yes, I didn't wrote "that Phenom II you wanted", because it was shorter without the "II", but it's kinda obvious that I was reffering to the Phenom II 955 Black from the first post and everything I wrote was about that model. I even wrote "955", and there is no Phenom I 955 Black. ;p

(01-29-2010, 02:04 AM)idn Wrote: if you still want a quad, that Phenom you wanted won't be bad at all, just a little worse than the Athlon II.

What I am after really is this statment you made. the Phenom II 955 is not worse than any Athlon II cpu. Just to clearify things a bit.
AMD Athlon II 245 @ 3.55ghz, 9600GT @730mhz 1115mhz, vista sp2 32bit
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#19
(01-29-2010, 03:01 AM)CKL Wrote:
(01-29-2010, 02:04 AM)idn Wrote: if you still want a quad, that Phenom you wanted won't be bad at all, just a little worse than the Athlon II.

What I am after really is this statment you made. the Phenom II 955 is not worse than any Athlon II cpu. Just to clearify things a bit.

you're quite selective in what you read. ;)

anyway, if you don't see it, I meant that in terms of pcsx2 performance, since pcsx2 uses only two cores it's obvious that an Athlon II @ 3,9 GHz will be better than a Phenom II @ 3,6 GHz, since they're both a K10, so clock-for-clock single-core performance will be nearly identical (not counting the L3 cache, but I doubt it's relevant with pcsx2).
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#20
Athlon II, Phenom, and Phenom II all have much more in common than they have different.

The main difference among them was that the first batch of Phenom's had a TLB bug (~10% performance hit, very ouchie).

The difference between Athlon II and PhenomII is L3 cache -- the AlthonII has none. PCSX2 generally cares little for large caches, my guess is the AthlonII will either match PhenomII in PCSX2, or be only very slightly slower (1-2%). No one's done a benchmark set to confirm or deny that assumption, though.

Compared to the old K8 series (Athlon64), Phenom/PhenomII/AthlonII (K10) chips are not significantly different; but they are certainly much improved in the "where it counts" areas: All three chips have much improved memory management and prefetch circuitry, which is where most of their performance increases come from -- the logic is most improved in terms of handling multi-threaded scenarios. The old K8's dual core design was very limited and two cores contesting for memory would end up stalling a lot and running very inefficiently.

The K10's also have a much improved SSE execution unit compared to the old Athlon64 (K8), and this is the second main area of speed improvement. The SSE instruction execution on whole is probably 40-60% faster on the K10's. Unfortunately they still don't have Denormals Are Zero optimizations, so PCSX2 isn't so impressed (most native PC games don't care so much for DaZ though). Thirdly, the K10 has various power management and die shrinking improvements, allowing for higher clocks, slightly cooler temps, etc.
Jake Stine (Air) - Programmer - PCSX2 Dev Team
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