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PCSX2 Vsync,W7Aero and Input lag. Borderless windowed needs to go.
#1
PCSX2 with how it is essentially borderless windowed is counter intuitive.

You guys should switch to full screen exclusive rendering for DXGI, as it stands PCSX2 makes games that require precise movement essentially impossible to play for people like me due to this combination of factors.


Ex.

GS Window>Vsync ticked+No Aero = Massive increase in input lag and no Vsync at all since it's borderless windowed

GS Window>Vsync Ticked+Aero= Even higher increase in latency, but you finally get Vsync.

GS Window>Vsync unticked+Aero= Less latency, but Vsync doesn't function correctly and the game will constantly stutter and the result isn't smooth at all. At a glance it looks like Aero Vsync is dropping to 1/2 refresh and back constantly. (This is in a low utilization scenario as well, ~30% on GS and EE both that runs fine without Aero enabled in this scenario)

GS Window>Vsync unticked+No Aero=slightly less latency but again no vsync so this isn't beneficial at all.



This is on a monitor that has ~29ms of latency on it's own
And also using DualShock3 Native input for pressure sensitivity.


One specific game in question, Armored Core 2 in the scenario where Vsync is working, there is what feels like almost 500ms of latency round trip making the game impossible to play.

Compared to running the game on an actual PS2 over component on a CRT side by side with PCSX2 and the difference is worlds apart in responsiveness. Inputs are near instantaneous on the real hardware. On PCSX2, every input is delayed.



And before you go "Specs!" and whether the game is running at full speed and speed hacks and what not.

I am using the default speed hack settings of 1 and the game has no problem running full speed at any given point.


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#2
That's a Nice idea.
Do you have any timeline on when you will have imported the exclusive full screen feature ?
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#3
(03-06-2015, 10:20 AM)jesalvein Wrote: That's a Nice idea.
Do you have any timeline on when you will have imported the exclusive full screen feature ?

What's with the passive aggressiveness? Since when are only developers allowed to make suggestions?

This was a very reasonable post, and one I absolutely agree with. I happen to have a CRT still around that I occasionally plug the PS2 in for various reasons, and the difference in latency is very noticeable.

You're not going to get native latency levels on an emulated platform hooked up to an LCD, but improvements are possible.

I'd also like to point out that the exclusive fullscreen mode implementation from Win8 on is much improved, and switches are a lot smoother and less intrusive.
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#4
Hostility eh? Explain to me why being stuck with borderless FS and essentially no good way to use Vsync AT ALL without a massive increase in latency is a good thing oh mighty guru!

Why should we be forced to endure constant tearing in order to have acceptable latency?

I'm not going to point out how other similar gen emulators do it much better because different systems=different situations. So explain why it is why it is? And why the PS2 is the only one that is this way.


Education is better than insults.

Especially when a suggestion is something that could benefit every user
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#5
Because the person that coded this (Jake Stine) is long gone and no one else has the knowledge to code it. Thus you got the answer if you really find it that unacceptable, you are very much welcome to code it yourself and make a pull request on github so we can implement it.
Bitching about a free program coded for your enjoyment because it doesn't reach your standards is pretty low.
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#6
If you are interpreting my constructive feedback and opinions (There is a difference) attached to it(OP) as bitching then the problem is with you.

YOU are the ones being hostile, YOU are the ones getting defensive and are acting as condescending unwarranted.


Instead of responding with "We'd like to do this, but insert here blah blah so we are unable" as you should to explain why. You choose to be rude instead of keeping a cool head. And you are surprised when sarcasm is the response to such a thing?

It's completely unnecessary.


A simple and polite answer to start with would've been just dandy!
Despite my opinion that the current setup makes it unplayable for me personally.
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#7
(03-06-2015, 11:50 AM)Eloris Wrote: What's with the passive aggressiveness? Since when are only developers allowed to make suggestions?

I don't see where you gals saw aggressiveness. But something like this :
Quote:"You guys should switch to full screen exclusive rendering for DXGI"
It's not a suggestion. More a kind of order. Just as if pcsx2 devs were working only for the OP.

That kind of spoilt child behaviour is hard to tolerate when all this is about a free program devs don't earn money for, and work on it in their free time.

Anyways, as Bosit said, Air left the project quite a while ago. Seeing improvements on exclusive full screen mode isn't likely to happen soon...
CPU : I7 2600K Oc'ed @ 4.2Ghz
Mobo : Intel P67 southbridge
GPU : NVIDIA Geforce GTX 750 Ti
RAM : 6 Go
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#8
(03-06-2015, 12:37 PM)Mr.Bonkers Wrote: You choose to be rude instead of keeping a cool head. And you are surprised when sarcasm is the response to such a thing?
There was no one rude at the thread, you're just making a big fuss out of nothing. That's nothing constructive IMO.
We're supposed to be working as a team, if we aren't helping and suggesting things to each other, we aren't working as a team.
- Refraction

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#9
(03-06-2015, 12:47 PM)jesalvein Wrote: I don't see where you gals saw aggressiveness.
You may not see it, but your first does seem (passive) aggressive.

Granted, The OP did also come off as aggressive, but your response is only really capable of making them more hostile.

(This post may also come off as being somewhat aggressive (and I'm sorry it it does), but I'm not sure how to word it less aggressively)

Back on topic.
I've seen exclusive full-screen a requested once before (I think, can't seem to find the post), However, I always thought that Borderless windowed full-screen mode was desirable for PC games. Does PCSX2 do something weird here is there always a latency issue with Borderless mode?

Also is there a elf/ps2 game that can measure input lag / reaction times?
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#10
Exclusive mode was already implemented... (so it was already explained @Mr.Bonkers)
But due to being instable it was replaced by the borderless window. I think if you make the exclusive mode obligatory we might loose stability on older systems as winxp, maybe vista and 7 as well... Not everyone has win8 (@Eloris).

I still agree with jesalvein. It is a nice idea to implement it. I would suggest to make it possible to switch the fullscreen mode.
Since you are obviously familiar with different vsync concepts and windows handling of vsync and no coder is currently available for such a job you might do it yourself.
Or you wait until a coder is available that wants to address this problem... your choice.
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