PCSX2 development plan,thoughts,contributions

[BlackTelomeres]

And I think that somewhere on the main site or forum this definition of Perfect that we come up with should be explained, out in the open, for everyone devs and users alike to see.

The compatibility list has a key by it for what each option means so I assume it'd work best to have a blurb for "perfect" above "playable" there to spell out what it means once it's decided. But of course the input on what it should mean, as you said, has to be done on the forums first.

[Blyss Sarania]

^ Oh right we have a key below the little graph showing how many games are what status. Forgot that. Yeah the description of Perfect would go there.

[avih]

When really was the last time it was updated? Is it truly that out of date, or is there anything even to add to it that has been discovered since it was last updated?

It's updated occasionally, and not too frequently. By all means, if you know of solid updates (like options with only positive effect and no negatives) do post them. We have nothing against improving the DB, and several high-profile games rely on it to operate well.

[JMC47]

Something that is argued on Dolphin, and would get argued here, is what perfect means. Some people say that if the game doesn't make the transition into HD (Higher Internal Resolutions) then it's not perfect. There are games that get minor graphical glitches from upscaling. To that I disagree, I say if it runs just like the console, it's perfect. If it runs better than on console? That's a bonus. I have no idea what definition (if there is a change to the compatibility settings) will be chosen, but I can guarantee not everyone will be happy.

[avih]

About rewriting the rating system. What I'd do to make it a lot easier (at first) would be to revamp it, but use the current ratings as a guideline, and let it be updated from there. Have a playable/completeable/enjoyable (something that means fairly well emulated) as a 3 or 4 star rank, and just put all of the playable games there. Simply changing 2000 games based on merits and testing that is outdated would be insane, so, by doing this, you allow a more accurate compatibility list in the long term without really compromising the list (too much) in the short term. I'm sure there are problems with this plan that would have to be discussed in detail, but, it's the only reasonable way I can put it.

Yup, it's not impossible, and maybe also reasonable. As BlackTelomeres and Blyss started to discuss, it's also not a trivial question to answer.

May I suggest to open a new thread on this subject and discuss it quietly and effectively there? I'll join when I can.

One thing that bugs me a tiny bit, was something refraction said earlier about a rewrite of the plugin costing $30,000 a year.

As ref answered, it's probably more of a joke (at the context it was said) than anything else. All of us joined and contribute to PCSX2 because we enjoy it, no one gets payed, and all of us have dayjobs and other commitments outside of PCSX2. We're here for the fun and we don't have intentions to hire or pay for development, even if we could. Where's the fun in that?

[Blyss Sarania]

It's updated occasionally, and not too frequently. By all means, if you know of solid updates (like options with only positive effect and no negatives) do post them. We have nothing against improving the DB, and several high-profile games rely on it to operate well.

Okay. I was just checking. I wanted to make sure it was worth doing before I started digging around for stuff. Basically that's my plan - to dig around and report my results. Not terribly efficient, but I want to do what I can.

Something that is argued on Dolphin, and would get argued here, is what perfect means. Some people say that if the game doesn't make the transition into HD (Higher Internal Resolutions) then it's not perfect. There are games that get minor graphical glitches from upscaling. To that I disagree, I say if it runs just like the console, it's perfect. If it runs better than on console? That's a bonus. I have no idea what definition (if there is a change to the compatibility settings) will be chosen, but I can guarantee not everyone will be happy.

It seems we are in agreement. That is what I often tell people who complain about software mode - that HD and enhancements are a bonus. Being a "PS2 emulator" to me says just that - emulate the PS2. The ultimate goal is to recreate that experience. If we can make it better, then that is great, but just getting it "correct" (as in, like the original hardware) is what I see as the most important thing.

But of course some will always disagree - you cannot please everyone. That's just the nature of life. I think it's more important to decide on the criteria and set the goal than to endlessly hash it out. The discussion is important, but it should not take an inordinate amount of time.

[Blyss Sarania]

Yup, it's not impossible, and maybe also reasonable. As BlackTelomeres and Blyss started to discuss, it's also not a trivial question to answer.

May I suggest to open a new thread on this subject and discuss it quietly and effectively there? I'll join when I can.

Done. I put it in developer discussion area:
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Discussin...ect-rating

[refraction]

It seems we are in agreement. That is what I often tell people who complain about software mode - that HD and enhancements are a bonus. Being a "PS2 emulator" to me says just that - emulate the PS2. The ultimate goal is to recreate that experience. If we can make it better, then that is great, but just getting it "correct" (as in, like the original hardware) is what I see as the most important thing.

I completely agree with this, the main goal from the outright is to emulate the PS2, to do what the console does. Additional things like upscaling and savestates and other features are conveniences for the user and enhancements which were never intended for that target in the first place, but in a majority of cases we can do them without problem. But like with many things (I remember seeing the Dolphin blog on the pixel centres) upscaling can cause graphical errors due to bad scaling amongst other things, so it is entirely irrelivant to the experience of the upscaling works on a game or not.

Perfect native graphics, bug free gameplay, these are the only factors which are ever important in emulation. Of course doing this at a reasonable speed is highly preferred so the users can actually enjoy the games

[gregory]

Honestly I don't understand this "accuracy" hype. Upscaling, removing blur effect (with various hack) are not accurate in the first place.

GSdx provides a SW renderer that trade-off speed for accuracy (or the HW renderer trade-off accuracy for speed ). Saying that this emulator is all about speed or accuracy is just wrong. This emulator is all about to provide the best experience as possible on the most people as possible.

Several stuff can be improved on GSdx, I never said the contrary. I even fixed some broken shadows with my OGL port. However SW upscaling or HW(GPU)/SW(CPU) mix is not going to work well. My personal opinion, one solution could be to implement some effects with a kind of SW renderer but on GPU. For example, it means emulate the depth/alpha with the fragment shader. Of course it will be a way slower than to use hardware accelerated unit, but high end GPU might be able to handle them at least in native. (it also depends how future hw progress).

By the way I never say that GSdx must be rewritten. I say that GSdx will require lots of change to be efficient on APU.

I'm personally working of various others topic so don't expect a big boost on the GSdx opengl backend.

[rama]

Saying that this emulator is all about speed or accuracy is just wrong. This emulator is all about to provide the best experience as possible on the most people as possible.

This is the main line of thought when we made our decisions.
It's always about the end user having a nice "experience" first.
That's why there are automatic systems, carefully chosen defaults and presets everywhere. They simplify and streamline the way to a good emulation result, even when we have (and need) as many options and configurations as we do.

If you take your time and look at the possibilities, PCSX2 right now allows for really great gaming, with all bells and whistles