Question about INTC Sync Hack and Persona 4

[rama]

Keep you PAL copy, your speeds are as expected with this game.
What you really want to do is overclock that cpu. Another 500Mhz (should be easy to do), and you're set.

[Bright-Warrior]

[...]What you really want to do is overclock that cpu. Another 500Mhz (should be easy to do), and you're set.

No, I don't want to do this^^. I never did this before, have no experience with this and I know noone who ever did this. Besides, I do more likely accept lower frames than to overcolock my system. My cooling isn't optimal after all.

So you mean, a NTSC copy isn't faster than my PAL one (besides the 10 fps difference that is set)? But isn't a NTSC copy more "smooth" or "comfortable" when it comes to slowdowns? This question is nagging on me for some time now^^. Because in PAL games, every fps is more "weighted" than in NTSC, where there're 10 more. Or are slowdowns "bigger" for NTSC than for PAL, so that the fps in % are the same?

[rama]

PAL and NTSC games do the same amount of work (usually), so you'll get the same percentage of slowdown.

If you don't want to overclock, no problem! The E8600 for just 200EUR or so is surely compatible with your mainboard!

[Bright-Warrior]

PAL and NTSC games do the same amount of work (usually), so you'll get the same percentage of slowdown.

That means that with NTSC I'm as wet as with PAL? But this is interesting, so, when it comes to slowdowns, NTSC and PAL are identical (not in fps, but in speed of the action)? Why am I than told to buy a NTSC version^^!? Just kidding, how should you know^^. But thanks for saying, I was about to look for an NTSC version, would be 36€ in total. And if there's no difference, it's not worth it.

If you don't want to overclock, no problem! The E8600 for just 200EUR or so is surely compatible with your mainboard!

Good idea! I give you my bank adress and you give me an advance . I thought about upgrading my CPU before, but at the moment, there is no real deal for me. The jump from 2,66 Ghz to 2,9 Ghz is not that rewarding, you know^^. And I don't want to spend very much money on it. I can buy me a new PC in about 2 years as well and then I'm glad to have saved that money^^.

[Air]

Actually, many PAL versions of games have slowdown problems. Some have CDROM or CDVD read speed glitches that basically murder framerates, others have unexplainable 50% fps drops. I'm really not sure yet why these things happen though, and so there's no known fix (yet). On the other hand, some other PAL games run perfectly fine.

However, it's also possible still that your ATI is a problem. Have you confirmed whether or not the GS cpu usage is topping 80% in the slow scenes? The reason I bring it up is because GSdx may still have some specific issues with ATI cards and performance, and so far everyone else who's posted that they run the game well are using Nvidia cards.

[Bright-Warrior]

Actually, many PAL versions of games have slowdown problems. Some have CDROM or CDVD read speed glitches that basically murder framerates, others have unexplainable 50% fps drops. I'm really not sure yet why these things happen though, and so there's no known fix (yet). On the other hand, some other PAL games run perfectly fine.[...]

That's interesting. Is it possible, that this big fps drops can be lowered by the use of microVU? Because this sounds like the "stuttering" I'm experiencing with superVU, which is vanishing by enabeling microVU.

[...]However, it's also possible still that your ATI is a problem. Have you confirmed whether or not the GS cpu usage is topping 80% in the slow scenes? The reason I bring it up is because GSdx may still have some specific issues with ATI cards and performance, and so far everyone else who's posted that they run the game well are using Nvidia cards.

Someone gave me this advice once before and tried an older version of GSDX, which is said not to have this ATI problem. But this one was even slower than the newer revisions. Not to mention that is was coming up with graphic glitches, which are fixed today. So I doubt that, but I will look after the GS CPU usage tomorrow (no time left for it today). Now, that I'm finally knowing what this CPU percentage is showing^^.

[Air]

Someone gave me this advice once before and tried an older version of GSDX, which is said not to have this ATI problem. But this one was even slower than the newer revisions.

Eh, that's misinformation. Older GSdx's were always horrible on ATIs. Feal87 and I tracked down the main ATI bottlenecks last summer and eliminated them. But there could still be issues with a particular oft-unused shader or some specific pattern of texture uploading. I don't have the game unfortunately so I can't check to see how it performs on my own ATI as a confirmation.

[rama]

Most of the slowdowns in this game are very detailed characters in battles. They work the VU very hard.
I'm commonly getting just 65 to 75 fps here, with a 4.1Ghz core2.

[Bright-Warrior]

[...]Have you confirmed whether or not the GS cpu usage is topping 80% in the slow scenes?[...]

I now looked after this and I think, you are right. The highest number for the GS cpu usage was 47%, with an usage of my cpu at about 75% - 80% (but about 3% were caused by the task manager). I made you some screens, so you can see what I try to say^^. Sorry for the sice though, but I wanted you to see everything as clearly as possible.





Note: I looked at the activity of my gpu and was pertty surprised: I don't know if this is normal, since I don't look at this all the time, but in the battle with Yukiko, the activity went unusual high, at about 51%. Normally, it has about 36%, like in the second picture. Could this be a hint for a ATI problem as well?

I also noticed something odd. You can see it in the first picture. At the moment Yukiko is summoning the Charming Prince, the console of PCSX2 prints a "PS2RNA: Warning". I never noticed this before, but I also play with fullscreen sometimes. I tried this multiple times and it always occured when she is summing him. For the second picture this did not happen, but I honestly don't know what kind of warning this is.

Someone gave me this advice once before and tried an older version of GSDX, which is said not to have this ATI problem. But this one was even slower than the newer revisions.

Eh, that's misinformation. Older GSdx's were always horrible on ATIs. Feal87 and I tracked down the main ATI bottlenecks last summer and eliminated them. But there could still be issues with a particular oft-unused shader or some specific pattern of texture uploading. I don't have the game unfortunately so I can't check to see how it performs on my own ATI as a confirmation.

This is good to hear, because I was pretty confused about this result^^. But as you can see on my screens, Persona 4 still seems to have some bottlenecks, unfortunately. What should the gs cpu usage normally show? About the same as the task manager?

[Air]

I now looked after this and I think, you are right. The highest number for the GS cpu usage was 47%, with an usage of my cpu at about 75% - 80%.

Ok then Rama's right. The game's just very CPU intensive and, chances are, the PAL version is bit more cpu intensive than the NTSC version (since this is very common among many PAL conversions).

I also noticed something odd. You can see it in the first picture. At the moment Yukiko is summoning the Charming Prince, the console of PCSX2 prints a "PS2RNA: Warning". I never noticed this before, but I also play with fullscreen sometimes. I tried this multiple times and it always occured when she is summing him. For the second picture this did not happen, but I honestly don't know what kind of warning this is.

Ignore it. It's just a debug message output by one of the game's internal libraries. Most of the time they're meant to be performance or "possible source of bugs" type warnings to the game's original developers, and are disregarded because "fixing" the code to avoid the warning was too much work or the specific scenario where the warning occurs is known to be harmless.

(yes, PCSX2 emulates the PS2's dev console output )