Still no 5.1 audio support?

[galneon]

Did I miss something, or is 5.1 audio support still not available? This could be achieved by either decoding and outputting as 5.1 PCM, or bitstreaming the encoded signal to an AVR. Will either solution ever be implemented?

Edit: To be totally clear, I'm talking about Dolby Digital/DTS as opposed to Pro Logic.

Here are games that support DD.

Here is a depressing issue thread.

This is a technically doable thing and would make so many games feel more like native. Surely not all of you are playing PS2 games on your built-in stereo laptop speakers so that you don't care about the 5.1 tracks you're missing? DTS Interactive tracks work in-engine, so it isn't cutscene-only like DD. Not many games use it though, so DD would be the priority.

[FlatOut]

No, there's no DD/DTS support. You'll have to stick to using Pro Logic for now.

[dabore]

actually not alot of games on that ps2 only list. i can count interesting titles almost on one hand. i dunno how far their audio caps reach in terms of real positional audio. is it worth to make this work?!? i'm not sure if there's any coder with motivation to implement a seemingly barely useful feature with a ton of complex decoding and compatibility and patent issues, anyway.

plain 5.1 is not an issue to output raw, but i'm not certain a ps2 can output ingame audio in raw 5.1. does it mux raw channels? if not it's just stereo and you gotta use psycho audio. pro logic II. you gotta math correct pro logic II and potentially emulate the hardware format and it should be decoded again. waste of cpu for a bunch of psycho audio and subjectivity and crap to get right. in terms of quality dolby can maybe sue, if this doesn't produce correct standard audio. in terms of fx, prologic allows just a bunch of spatial reverb anyway. pro logic voice cancelling math for positional audio may be very hard to achieve.

got fusion again, but it's still lagging like hell. EE peaks. can't figure out what the audio does either. i have no surround speakers anyway, so... i shouldn't even 'talk' or think about trying to figure it out.

[galneon]

dabore, you realize an ideal emulator strives for 99%+ accuracy, right? That means not shrugging off significant features just because you lack the hardware to enjoy them currently ("only" 79 games use DD, and around a dozen have in-engine DTS). ffmpeg and lavaudio haven't seen much legal trouble with their decoders.

No, a native PS2 can't output 5.1 PCM. Toslink only allows 2.0 PCM. I mentioned decoding DD/DTS on the fly to PCM as an alternative to bitstreaming (passing the encoded signal to a decoding device), just for the purposes of emulation. Many people with analog surround setups hooked up to their PC do this in media players, as well as people who want to enjoy TrueHD/DTSMaster tracks on their AVR that doesn't have the decoders for them but supports 5.1/7.1 PCM. It's also required even for an AVR user if you have a video with 5.1 or 7.1 FLAC which has to be decoded to PCM to send to the AVR.

PLII (with the extra channels extrapolated using an AVR or soundcard) works well when you have a matrixed stereo signal--look at any GameCube or Wii game that uses it to get 5.1 (non-discrete) over an RCA stereo connection. It's not just gimmicky as you seem to suggest. It can provide decent positioning minus the cross-talk I mentioned before. SPU-X2 outputs a proper matrixed stereo signal for supported games.

By the way, I meant to link the list you linked--thought I'd selected PS2-only games. :/

[FlatOut]

dabore, you realize an ideal emulator strives for 99%+ accuracy, right? That means not shrugging off significant features just because you lack the hardware to enjoy them currently

PCSX2 doesn't have many active developers. So if you really want the feature and have some programming knowledge, you might want to look into it yourself. Even if you don't finish the work, having some of the work done will increase the chance that future developers will pick it up.

In the meantime Pro Logic II virtual surround isn't that bad of an alternative for people who would like to make use of their surround system.

[galneon]

I realize that and wasn't in any way responding to you, or directing anything at developers beyond my initial post. I only wanted someone in dabore, who comes off as a bit of an apologist, to understand that, in general, emu developers always want native features, even if they're rather obscure (and this feature is by no means obscure). I can understand it not being an immediate priority, but I would be surprised if it wasn't on an informal long-term roadmap. I care about audio a lot so I would most likely be willing to contribute were I a developer, but I'm afraid I'm not.

I have a couple PS2s. I've never had the need to test on them, but with bitstreamed DD disabled, I had assumed cutscenes would be plain, non-matrixed stereo (making any upmixing with PLII, Neo:6, PLIIx/z, etc. unintelligent and non-positional). Do cutscenes for PLII titles that also support DD (for cutscenes only) output a PLII-matrixed stereo signal in cutscenes when bitstreaming is disabled? I'll test someday myself if no one knows, but my one-console-connected-at-a-time rule means I won't have a PS2 hooked up for a while.

[dabore]

dabore, you realize an ideal emulator strives for 99%+ accuracy, right? That means not shrugging off significant features just because you lack the hardware to enjoy them currently ("only" 79 games use DD, and around a dozen have in-engine DTS). ffmpeg and lavaudio haven't seen much legal trouble with their decoders.

No, a native PS2 can't output 5.1 PCM. Toslink only allows 2.0 PCM. I mentioned decoding DD/DTS on the fly to PCM as an alternative to bitstreaming (passing the encoded signal to a decoding device), just for the purposes of emulation. Many people with analog surround setups hooked up to their PC do this in media players, as well as people who want to enjoy TrueHD/DTSMaster tracks on their AVR that doesn't have the decoders for them but supports 5.1/7.1 PCM. It's also required even for an AVR user if you have a video with 5.1 or 7.1 FLAC which has to be decoded to PCM to send to the AVR.

PLII (with the extra channels extrapolated using an AVR or soundcard) works well when you have a matrixed stereo signal--look at any GameCube or Wii game that uses it to get 5.1 (non-discrete) over an RCA stereo connection. It's not just gimmicky as you seem to suggest. It can provide decent positioning minus the cross-talk I mentioned before. SPU-X2 outputs a proper matrixed stereo signal for supported games.

By the way, I meant to link the list you linked--thought I'd selected PS2-only games. :/

ugh. what? spare me with tech babble. i know the ps2 can passthru or decode whatever 5.1 audio from a dvd video. it may be a fixed decoder block even. i setup a home cinema with a ps2 and a good 3D shot. it doesn't mean that games can use the same when rendering in realtime. the game audio is rendered on the spu. usually in stereo. with some reverb or stuff perhaps. i dunno if the ps2 hardware can mux that output into a 5.1 raw streams. so.... perhaps it may work (if it's computed fast enough), or just not and you get just a prologic echo. you dunno?

[galneon]

ugh. what? spare me with tech babble. i know the ps2 can passthru or decode whatever 5.1 audio from a dvd video. it may be a fixed decoder block even. i setup a home cinema with a ps2 and a good 3D shot. it doesn't mean that games can use the same when rendering in realtime. the game audio is rendered on the spu. usually in stereo. with some reverb or stuff perhaps. i dunno if the ps2 hardware can mux that output into a 5.1 raw streams. so.... perhaps it may work (if it's computed fast enough), or just not and you get just a prologic echo. you dunno?

'What' is right. Tech babble? Seems we're dealing with a language barrier here. Like I said, only DTS games have discrete (4.0 I think) surround in-engine:

DTS Interactive tracks work in-engine, so it isn't cutscene-only like DD. Not many games use it though, so DD would be the priority.

The only games with positional audio in-engine use a PLII stereo signal (which you need a decoder for) or a DTS bitstream (which you need a decoder for).

i have no surround speakers anyway, so... i shouldn't even 'talk' or think about trying to figure it out.

I'm afraid not.