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settings that only partly solve a problem
#11
(10-20-2018, 10:13 AM)tizzio Wrote: ok , well of course we are all looking for a solution that allow proper bloom effects even with any level of upscaling , i already know that native resolution cna sovle the problem but seriousely do not talk like you didn't notice how  s-hi-tty are the games with the native graphic , so knowing this you see how really that isn't the solution at all

Assuming that upscaling will and should always work cleanly is setting yourself up for failure. First off, a hardware renderer is NOT the most accurate, a software renderer is, because it respects every aspect of the PS2's design precisely. This is why in terms of accuracy, we say that the software renderers are the default setting. You get less luxury features, but by god if they don't get it right something had to have gone horribly wrong to get there. Hardware renderers in contrast have to make a best effort to imitate PS2 behavior using a completely different set of PC functions. Do they allow nice shiny things like upscaling and GPU acceleration that people take for granted and assume are perfectly possible without any side effects? Sure. Are they actually flawless and surgically precise without side effects? Oh hell no they are not. Will they ever be? Oh hell no they won't.
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#12
(10-20-2018, 06:41 PM)pandubz Wrote: Assuming that upscaling will and should always work cleanly is setting yourself up for failure. First off, a hardware renderer is NOT the most accurate, a software renderer is, because it respects every aspect of the PS2's design precisely. This is why in terms of accuracy, we say that the software renderers are the default setting. You get less luxury features, but by god if they don't get it right something had to have gone horribly wrong to get there. Hardware renderers in contrast have to make a best effort to imitate PS2 behavior using a completely different set of PC functions. Do they allow nice shiny things like upscaling and GPU acceleration that people take for granted and assume are perfectly possible without any side effects? Sure. Are they actually flawless and surgically precise without side effects? Oh hell no they are not. Will they ever be? Oh hell no they won't.

And going off that up scaling implies your stretching the internal images resolution to unnatural levels meaning the image is stretched in ways it's not designed for there is no and I mean no fix for this. The most accurate emulator in the world is higan which emulates the SNES, you think it allows or even has an upscaler built in? Hell no.

That's why I said Software mode / native resolution looks fine and I wasn't kidding either it's the resolution the game was designed to run at meaning it won't be unnaturally torn or bent in the various different ways that half pixel offset can satiate to an extent.

Now with all that said, I'm not saying Upscaling is bad but simply try to understand that when there's issues like the bloom effects being off there's no magical insta fix hence the HW hacks because that's not really what the games designed to do, like at all.
#13
Also it should be kept in mind that most of these games were made of time when CRT televisions were the normal. Due to the way that these TVs display the content a certain amount of fuzziness was hidden and could be used to vastly increase the performance capable from the hardware. Some graphical design decisions will always look kind of odd on an LCD display and increasing the internal resolution will only compound's the problem. Out of the 6th gen consoles Song's support of progressive scan and HD resolutions was the least consistent and the catalog shows this.
#14
You're saying that CRTs are inferior to LCD tv's, for old/nostalgic gaming on older consoles these CRT TVs are overall way better then any LCD.
#15
(10-20-2018, 06:41 PM)pandubz Wrote: Assuming that upscaling will and should always work cleanly is setting yourself up for failure. First off, a hardware renderer is NOT the most accurate, a software renderer is, because it respects every aspect of the PS2's design precisely. This is why in terms of accuracy, we say that the software renderers are the default setting. You get less luxury features, but by god if they don't get it right something had to have gone horribly wrong to get there. Hardware renderers in contrast have to make a best effort to imitate PS2 behavior using a completely different set of PC functions. Do they allow nice shiny things like upscaling and GPU acceleration that people take for granted and assume are perfectly possible without any side effects? Sure. Are they actually flawless and surgically precise without side effects? Oh hell no they are not. Will they ever be? Oh hell no they won't.

yes , we all must take for granted all the inpruvements to the graphic without any side effect and i certainly do , and yes , without any as-sh-ole like you that spend it's energy to convince people of the contrary and trying to find a solution instead it will be possible ,even what we have now seem impossible long time ago , it would be nie from everyone to not keep making the same idiotic mistake over and over again

(10-20-2018, 08:52 PM)weirdbeardgame Wrote: And going off that up scaling implies your stretching the internal images resolution to unnatural levels meaning the image is stretched in ways it's not designed for there is no and I mean no fix for this. The most accurate emulator in the world is higan which emulates the SNES, you think it allows or even has an upscaler built in? Hell no.

That's why I said Software mode / native resolution looks fine and I wasn't kidding either it's the resolution the game was designed to run at meaning it won't be unnaturally  torn or bent in the various different ways that half pixel offset can satiate to an extent.

Now with all that said, I'm not saying Upscaling is bad but simply try to understand that when there's issues like the bloom effects being off there's no magical insta fix hence the HW hacks because that's not really what the games designed to do, like at all
that problem can and must be fixed , the solution of the native resolution or worse , the software render or whatever it is aren't a solution because the graphic sucks with those options , and again , yes it can and it must be solved , as-sh-ole
#16
(10-21-2018, 12:31 AM)StriFe Wrote: You're saying that CRTs are inferior to LCD tv's, for old/nostalgic gaming on older consoles these CRT TVs are overall way better then any LCD.

it sucks , whatever a stupid nostalgic di-ck head may think
#17
again , the solution is to fix all those issues and preserve all the inpruvements THAT MUST AND AGE TAKEN FOR GRNTED , i am getting tires to repeat the same thing over and over again so don't make me do that please , if you all would spend less time trying to contradict me and more time focusing on a solution probably half of the steps whould be aready been done
#18
The solution is going to be a fix to GSdx and it is going to take a while before anyone both identifies the root cause and can fix it. You're preaching to the choir.

We already know this problem exists.

All we were trying to do was offer you solutions that you can use to mitigate the problem in the meantime. Whether you like those mitigations is your call. Obviously you don't. Respectable, native is in fact not the prettiest thing on this planet to look at. Keep in mind I also mentioned Half Pixel Offset may help reduce the misalignments to an extent. Again, not perfect, so respectable that you don't like it.

But that's what we have right now. Hounding about how it has to be fixed because you say it should and calling me an ***** for trying to offer mitigations, that you happen to not like, is not going to accomplish anything. Fewer and fewer people, myself included, will take you seriously that way.

So please, lets keep it constructive and not just complain and demand things.
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#19
aaand it's time to stop feeding the troll.
looks like that kid definitely was eager to rant, and he did it here.

hope he got satisfied ...
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