(12-19-2015, 11:44 PM)willkuer Wrote: [ -> ]What does that mean?
I mean you need the bios to run ps2 games on your PC using an emulator, so why are you surprised that the ps3 - which is ps2 backward compatible - needs it?
The only way not to use the bios is by emulating it, and why would Sony emulate the ps2 bios and waste time and money if they own it, and can just include it in every ps3?
(12-19-2015, 11:54 PM)BlackDaemon Wrote: [ -> ]That doesn't matter 
Any PS3 console with ability to run unsigned code, and access to /dev_flash/ contents. In my case it's Slim CECH-2008A. Technically every PS3 console has software PS2 emulation in case with "PS2 Classic" titles in PSN.
I think will try that. I hope google will lead me through this process. This would be really good news.
(12-19-2015, 11:55 PM)K.F Wrote: [ -> ]I mean you need the bios to run ps2 games on your PC using an emulator, so why are you surprised that the ps3 - which is ps2 backward compatible - needs it?
The only way not to use the bios is by emulating it, and why would Sony emulate the ps2 bios and waste time and money if they own it, and can just include it in every ps3?
We fully software emulate the whole ps2 hardware. For sure the ps2 bios works on the emulated ps2 hardware. Sony on the other side does not need to fully emulate the ps2. They could rewrite the dvd access part on the ps3 hardware. Or the hdd access matching ps3 hdd controller. Older models support a hw gs module but the first access of this module might be different than on the ps2. I guess the ps2 functions pack in the bios is the same but automatically expecting that the first part of the hw communication is the same seemed not reasonable to me.
If it works for BlackDaemon I seemed to be wrong. I would just have guessed that sony rewrites a small part of the bios instead of embed the bios into emulation as we do.
You can't run the games of a system on another system without either having the hardware, emulating it, or a combination of both. And in all three cases you will need the bios functions. The psp, and ps2 both had the ps1 bios, and ps3 has the ps2 bios. They all are altered to different degrees, but they all are there.
The only exception that I can think of is HLE emulation, that's why HLE emulators like Play! and rpcs3 don't need bios to work.
Quote:They could rewrite the dvd access part on the ps3 hardware. Or the hdd access matching ps3 hdd controller.
They still need write all this stuff (driver/firmware/ plugin - in case of PCSX2 -) even if they used the bios.
Quote:first part of the hw communication is the same seemed not reasonable to me.
The ps3 has its own bios.
It's absolutely possible and maybe even probable that I don't have an idea how even remotely that works. But if PS2 DVD drive understands ReadDisk() and the PS3 DVD drive understands DiskRead() you have different possibilities to make a PS2 game run on the PS3:
PS2:
Code:
Game requests DVD access -> PS2 Bios Sends ReadDisk() -> PS2 DVD drive reads the disk
PS3, case 1: embedded emulation
Code:
Game requests DVD access -> PS2 Bios Sends ReadDisk() -> PS3 Bios catches and translates ReadDisk() to DiskRead() -> PS3 DVD drive reads the disk
PS3, case 2: adjusted BIOS (Bios accesses PS3 HW directly)
Code:
Game requests DVD access -> adjusted PS2 Bios Sends DiskRead() -> PS3 DVD drive reads the disk
The first case would fully emulate the ps2 on the ps3. With all drawbacks of performance and accuracy. Nevertheless the ps2 bios would work for pcsx2
The second case would only partially emulate the ps2. Those parts which are not built in the ps3 but are required would need to be emulated. All other parts are HW implemented. This would have some benefits and possibly drawbacks (higher performance, possibly lower accuracy)
So what I am thinking wrong here?
The bios is just software, its' the most basic piece of software, but it is still software nonetheless, that still needs to go through the hardware that you will have, or will emulate anyway. And like all other software - like the games themselves -, you can't just "adjust" it to run on another system, without rebuilding it from the ground up, which is basically emulating it. And by the way, the last thing you need to worry about in the bios, is the optimization and performance, what it does is - relatively - not very taxing on the hardware at all.