Are PAL versions preferable for emulation?
This is quite pointless. You use what you have, I seriously doubt you guys will import games in order to have a NTSC/PAL version.

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I find this discussion very interesting and one reason it's not totally pointless, is that quite a few PAL games actually give you the option of running 50 Hz og 60 Hz (Rogue Galaxy being one of them).

So what would be the best option here, since this is a game that currently struggles with achieving full speed ?
(01-25-2009, 12:30 PM)emaestro1 Wrote: So what would be the best option here, since this is a game that currently struggles with achieving full speed ?

Are you serious? It takes you about 10 second to try it and ~15 second to write that post.
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Sigh ..

I meant from a theoritical point of view in regards to how the emulator works.
NTSC works fine for me....
PAL works fine for me...
Quite hard to see any tearing in my PVA based LCD.
Unless I play at 100 fps, and move things fast.
I prefer to play in french instead of english,
so obviously I'll choose a PAL version.
(01-25-2009, 12:30 PM)emaestro1 Wrote: quite a few PAL games actually give you the option of running 50 Hz og 60 Hz (Rogue Galaxy being one of them).

Ditto. I'm French and I've played many games on the PS2. All the games I have played so far ask you to choose between PAL and NTSC. Most people play in NSTC mode since a lot of games are too slow in PAL mode (the Guilty Gear series, for example), and they didn't start doing it with the PS2, since you could choose between those modes on the Dreamcast and PSX — I know Tekken was too slow in PAL mode, for one.

Thus, a PAL version of a given videogame will both support PAL and NSTC, since the games are originally made for NTSC mode.
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A simple answer.

50fps are easier to achieve than 60fps.

Yeah I was asking myself this question. So is there any one qualified to answer this?
(01-25-2009, 02:40 AM)matsuri Wrote: Normally, PAL versions are ugly hacks to make possible PAL's 50fps. Sometimes, they slow down the whole game in order to do so, or screw up frame-exact tricks in the original game to keep length fine (think on what happens to a scroll that's n pixel per vertical trace while on NTSC, aka perfectly even, after being adapted to PAL and made to last the same amount of time). They're generally worse. I avoid them like the plague.
Sad but true. Not always but known to happen.

(01-25-2009, 02:40 AM)matsuri Wrote: Then there's my TFT (HP LP2475w, rocks). Most computer TFTs out there run at a recommended freq of 60Hz and often don't support 50Hz, which causes perceivable unevenness in the distribution of frames, if PAL 50Hz things are played at 60Hz.

My advice: Avoid PAL like the plague. If you're in Europe, just use whatever tricks necessary to get the NTSC version of the games. Good luck.
I have a feeling that 50Hz support is missing/bad mostly in US. Sure recommend resolution with my "european" tft is 60HZ but there is also things like tv-out or second DVI or even HDMI connector to your to your TV.

PAL games looks mostly fine if your monitor/tv properly supports 50Hz. But I know its pain trying to watch 50->60 conversion...

About is it easier to achieve 50 tahn 60fps:

480i NTSC - 480i PAL = 720x480x60 - 720x576x50 = 0 pixels / second. Unless I've made some mistakes with my calculations. Not sure how pcsx2 makes calculations but if we only check pixels 50fps isn't easier to achieve than 60fps considering higher native resolution of PAL. Well this calculation is done using "stantard" native resolutions only.

And last but not least. Many european PAL games support both PAL and NTSC modes like said earlier.

Actually I'd say get (buy/import) the PAL version even if you live in US if it also supports NTSC natively as PAL versions are known to have better gfx/more content with some games Wink

EDIT: Obviously normal scenario is that you already own the game and play what ever stantard it is
PAL vs. NTSC - Performance Q/A

Q. Are PAL games easier on the emulator than NTSC games?

A. The real answer is "it depends on the game." But as a general rule of thumb, PAL games are actually more work for the emulator. This is because the slowest part of PS2 emulation is usually the EmotionEngine processor, and PAL games actually have more EE cycles per frame than NTSC games. It ends up being the same number of EE cycles per second, but the PAL games tend to spend more time doing branch tests and hardware register reads/writes, which are computationally expensive. PAL games also don't seem to be quite as well optimized in how they utilize the VU1, which is related to Matsuri's comments about how many PAL games are just hacks of the NTSC versions.

Exceptions: Games which are GPU-limited will be faster on PAL. So if you have a slow/old/crappy video card and/or are trying to emulate a game that does 100,000 texture swizzles, PAL will have an easier time running 50 fps than NTSC would running 60fps. The problem is that, as Matsuri explained, most PAL games are just under-speed NTSC games. So a PAL game running at 50fps is almost the same thing as an NTSC game running 50fps. That is, it's running slow in either case.

Q. So Matsuri is right? Avoid PAL like the plague?

A. Of course not. And I'm not saying that just because of Matsuri's rotten attitude (although that's a nice motivation). The fact is there are still games where the english PAL version differs from the english NTSC version. Many american NTSC games tend to have goofy censorships still (tho granted not as often these days as in the past), and the PAL version is a way to have both the original intended Japanese gameplay and have the game be in english. People in the US have imported PAL consoles and games from Europe solely for that purpose. Sure, the FPS rate might be a hack, but its not really that big of a deal (especially if the game is an RPG or something where fps isn't very critical). Besides, even that part is fixable because...

Q. Would it be possible to have Pcsx2 run PAL games at 60 fps?

A. This is absolutely possible. First off you can just set the Framelimiter to 60fps. That's the easy way, but it will also cause audio to play a bit fast. But even that is fixable. A few simple tweaks to Pcsx2's counters code would allow it to run PAL games at 60fps, giving the game it's "true" FPS, while maintaining the audio sync and everything. All the joys of PAL gaming, none of the drawbacks of 50 fps hackishness! No one's ever really requested it that I'm aware of, so it's not made it on to any priority todo lists. Maybe I'll put it on my list. Smile
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