No more slowdown

[billyash]

Ok, I get it.
I wish I understand programing, I could implement this on pcsx2

[nosisab Ken Keleh]

Ok, I get it.
I wish I understand programing, I could implement this on pcsx2

Yep, yet remember your proposition might actually help in some cases those having weak machines which could not run a PCSX2 emulated game otherwise.

And understand that must be a reason behind the devs deciding to disallow changing those settings in the GUI. Although it could help in special cases on very slow machines, they caused too much problems and broke too much games as well.

The conclusion being that although not forbidden, tapering with the NTSC and PAL defaults is too much dangerous for the emulator's normal functioning and must be attempted only after everything else failed. And for obvious reasons, no official support to eventual issues from it can be provided.

[Preet]

Ok...now i knew most of the things.if u want less broken audio in cutscenes.then first select spu r5403(not zero spu,first one).then configure it & select linear/simple okay sound,Direct sound (nice) & configure it select device which u'r computer have.as example i have realtek high definition audio,i selected that.increase output buffer to full.latency 50 ms.now the main thing if i put value in ini folder pcsx2_vm framerate ntsc=25,framerate pal=25,baseframerate=200%.i get huge speed,but with much broken audio in cutscenes.so if u want less broken audio in cutscenes,then put value framerate ntsc=30,framerate pal=30,baseframerate=200%.u get okay speed & less broken audio .it should match same speed as in game & in cutscenes,that's why if we keep default value framerate ntsc=59.94,framerate pal=50.we get slow speed,but nice audio in cutscenes.i want to hear u'r opinions also.so give u'r sugestions also.thanks!!!

[billyash]

Ok...now i knew most of the things.if u want less broken audio in cutscenes.then first select spu r5403(not zero spu,first one).then configure it & select linear/simple okay sound,Direct sound (nice) & configure it select device which u'r computer have.as example i have realtek high definition audio,i selected that.increase output buffer to full.latency 50 ms.now the main thing if i put value in ini folder pcsx2_vm framerate ntsc=25,framerate pal=25,baseframerate=200%.i get huge speed,but with much broken audio in cutscenes.so if u want less broken audio in cutscenes,then put value framerate ntsc=30,framerate pal=30,baseframerate=200%.u get okay speed & less broken audio .it should match same speed as in game & in cutscenes,that's why if we keep default value framerate ntsc=59.94,framerate pal=50.we get slow speed,but nice audio in cutscenes.i want to hear u'r opinions also.so give u'r sugestions also.thanks!!!

if ntsc=30 so pal=25 limit=200% if ntsc=36 then pal=27.5 and limit=210%

[billyash]

Yep, yet remember your proposition might actually help in some cases those having weak machines which could not run a PCSX2 emulated game otherwise.

And understand that must be a reason behind the devs deciding to disallow changing those settings in the GUI. Although it could help in special cases on very slow machines, they caused too much problems and broke too much games as well.

The conclusion being that although not forbidden, tapering with the NTSC and PAL defaults is too much dangerous for the emulator's normal functioning and must be attempted only after everything else failed. And for obvious reasons, no official support to eventual issues from it can be provided.

so disappointing if automatic framerate was disallow
and said broke many games.my question is broke what?
But as far as I test the only problem was audio only cos limiter isn't set automatic with framerate and no texture was broken.

[Thewonderboy]

All games that I own work flawlesly as long as they start so I dont need this tweak.

However I tried PCSX2 on my laptop some time ago just for teh lulz and it ran games @ 10 FPS
Just might aswell try this on my lappy.

[nosisab Ken Keleh]

so disappointing if automatic framerate was disallow
and said broke many game. But
as far as I test the only problem was audio only cos limiter isn't set automatic with framerate and no texture was broken.

No, you misunderstood me, it was never automatic, just had a box which you could change values exactly like the frame limiter still has.

What I supported and refraction already told he was aware about is a way to actually make it automatic, in the sense of trying to compensate the fall on FPS, but that can be done only if the general synchronization can be kept, MAINLY the sound because it is too much evident and experience breaking. Just that was not found a way to do it yet.

The way of PS2 is hard on PC emulation, it was designed in pipeline and then hard to put on a tree model (what would make multithreading much easier).

And then comes the problems of timings and the need to keep the sync between the several modules and for now that is accomplished trying to keep the FPS steady, but must be understood that is meant the FPS as PS2 would provide, not just arbitrary increase of frames (remember frames and image aren't the same thing, you could draw a lot of blank frames and have few actual frames carrying images and that would not help much).

The following is put on code mode for it is long and technical, so may not interest to everybody. Feel free to skip it at will.

Code:

Let us identify and then be able to understand some related concepts which will help understand how things work together.

-- First of all comes the concept of refresh rate, you can understand it as the most basic frame, it carries no other information about the image, it's only function is to keep the image, be on TV or be on the PC monitor steady. It's so important to keep fixated that if is messed not only the image as the whole frame becomes distorted, once upon a time TVs were very vulnerable to it and was common to see image moving up or down due to failure in the vertical synchronism or the image becoming unrecognizable strips due to loss on horizontal sync.

That is what PS2 keeps stead at the TV standard and so defined as 60 FPS (NTSC) or 50 FPS (most PAL). On the emulator you can still get as low as 30FPS and the image just becomes slow but don't get those distortions mentioned above, if it happened on actual PS2 you would want to push your TV out a 20th floor window.

The second concept is that of actual image frame. Let's say your monitor is defined as 60HZ under the native resolution, a reasonable assumption. So it will draw 60 blank frame per second despite how many "actual" FPS are drawn by the game. Actually you could see each of those frames as the "canvas" to push onto the real frame that is the refresh rate.

Finally comes the image drawn on each frame, understanding that last concept is fundamental to understand the pace the changes occur. So, the program may sample several "canvas" per second but what will make sense to us as watchers is how the canvas are painted.

From the above the understanding of why speedhacks sometimes feel lagging. They allow to increase the actual FPS sampled as "canvas" to match the needed for PS2 compliance with TV but affect what is actually "drawn" in each those frames.

So, is incorrect to call the result of speedhacks "fake FPS" for it is actual FPS but since is changed the pace of drawing, the final result is not fidel  to the original.

Resuming the three above concepts:
- losing sync on refresh rate distorts not only the image as the very canvas itself, making watching the thing impossible or plainly unpleasant.

-- differences on FPS and refresh rate may appear as tearing on the image but the canvas is kept intact.

-- losing sync on the draw rate appear as slowdown in the motion (or fast motion) depending on the offset.

_______________________

That said, changing the default for NTSC or PAL on the emulator would not cause any harm on PC because PC don't have any use to it.

From the emulator view point, that 60FPS is somewhat equivalent on PS2 refresh rate, a standard PS2 consider so "sacred" and fixated that allows synchronization and timings to be done based on it, actually is how TV works also.

When you change this default to 30FPS (NTSC) and then compensated by increase on the frame limiter you may be increasing the emulator's FPS but still making the "PS2" frame rate half of the expected. This might and probably will break helplessly almost every timing and sync and the game's behavior becomes totally unforeseeable. All kind of issues may come from it, errors on sound are just the most immediately noticed.

The official speedhacks are of same nature, they are unreliable also but at reasonable values they may not break a game so much or may not harm in a clearly or unpleasant way at all. The same may occur with the change on the TV defaults, just in this case the change is too daring and the results may be very harmful to the experience... or just work without greater or unacceptable compromise, so it may be seen as a speedhack attempt also, one that should be kept as last resource, desperate attempt.

Sorry for the long post, I hope it may bring some light on those concepts commonly misunderstood and confused as one unique big thing. Good times of actual movie films, in them the concepts of frame, canvas and image (picture) are inseparable

[billyash]

All games that I own work flawlesly as long as they start so I dont need this tweak.

However I tried PCSX2 on my laptop some time ago just for teh lulz and it ran games @ 10 FPS
Just might aswell try this on my lappy.

sure , you could try and please report result

[billyash]

What I supported and refraction already told he was aware about is a way to actually make it automatic, in the sense of trying to compensate the fall on FPS, but that can be done only if the general synchronization can be kept, MAINLY the sound because it is too much evident and experience breaking. Just that was not found a way to do it yet.

like i told before it can be done by increasing limiter atomatic too(limiter should follow by fps changing)
E.g if ntsc
fps=24, limiter=250% if suddenly
fps=15, limiter=400% then suddenly
fps change =60 ,limiter =100%
(so limiter change automatic according fps changing)
,
so audio will read it as standard fps

[nosisab Ken Keleh]

like i told before it can be done by increasing limiter atomatic too(limiter should follow by fps changing)
E.g if ntsc
fps=24, limiter=250% if suddenly
fps=15, limiter=400% then suddenly
fps change =60 ,limiter =100%
(so limiter change automatic according fps changing)
,
so audio will read it as standard fps

Alright, I give up. exhausted my arguments already

Getting 60 FPS on PCSX2 never was hard, hard is only getting correct gaming at that speed.