GSdx

[Blyss Sarania]

Yeah, I am planning to look into the exclusive fullscreen thing whenever I get my dev environment installed again.

[masterotaku]

Well good news for you, I believe Blyss Sarania was looking into possibly implementing exclusive fullscreen.

Good! . Exclusive fullscreen can lead to 3D Vision.

I don't get any performance hit. The only difference is I'm on Windows 8.1, which I know does better in games, but the difference can't be THAT different. :-\

That's why you don't get a performance hit, because W8.1 doesn't have Aero. OK, performance is worse only by a few fps last time I checked, but every fps counts. Stuttering is what I hate the most, since Aero tries to force vsync in a not vsynched game. The same happens for example in Borderlands 2 in borderless windowed fulscreen with vsync off.

P.S. How are the temps on your 4670k? I'm thinking of OC'ing mine soon. What cooler are you using? I was suggested a CM Hyper 212 EVO

My cooler is a Noctua NH-D14. My temps in games are usually fresh, even at 1.323v of vcore (my CPU is below the average, and I wanted at least 4.5GHz ). They don't usually reach even 60ºC in games, except for Dolphin (in intensive games) and Guild Wars 2. However, in stress testing I'm reaching the limit. In the normal Prime95 it reaches 70 something degrees, but in tests that use the AVX and AVX2 instructions, it gets between 90 something and 100 ºC. In summer, it throttled a bit in those tests. You'll probably be luckier than me.

Edit: thanks, Blyss. My hopes are on you. I'm currently learning Java, Javascript and PHP. I hope that someday I'll be able to contribute to PCSX2.

[karasuhebi]

That's why you don't get a performance hit, because W8.1 doesn't have Aero. OK, performance is worse only by a few fps last time I checked, but every fps counts. Stuttering is what I hate the most, since Aero tries to force vsync in a not vsynched game. The same happens for example in Borderlands 2 in borderless windowed fulscreen with vsync off.

My cooler is a Noctua NH-D14. My temps in games are usually fresh, even at 1.323v of vcore (my CPU is below the average, and I wanted at least 4.5GHz ). They don't usually reach even 60ºC in games, except for Dolphin (in intensive games) and Guild Wars 2. However, in stress testing I'm reaching the limit. In the normal Prime95 it reaches 70 something degrees, but in tests that use the AVX and AVX2 instructions, it gets between 90 something and 100 ºC. In summer, it throttled a bit in those tests. You'll probably be luckier than me.

Edit: thanks, Blyss. My hopes are on you. I'm currently learning Java, Javascript and PHP. I hope that someday I'll be able to contribute to PCSX2.

I see, I see. Well I mean from what I understand, your post from the last page that initially started this conversation was about vsync not working in certain situations under PCSX2, so therefore I would suggest you turn on Aero so that you get Windows to handle vsync until exclusive fullscreen gets implemented. Specially since as you said you only lose a few FPS. As you know, it's basically down to preference: Do you want more FPS or do you want your games not to tear? XD Side-note: I've never seen PCSX2 tear on me and I don't have Vsync on in PCSX2. Could that be because Windows is doing the vsync?

Oooo..Noctua. I've heard great things about their coolers from the videos on LinusTechTips. I might go with one of their CPU coolers then. Can you PM me a suggestion on one that's not as hard-core as the one you have? I don't want to spend that much in CPU cooling just yet. Unless you think it's necessary so that I can cool this baby properly when it's OC'ed? I keep the A/C running 24/7 in my house (usually 75°F during the day) so summer won't be an issue for me.

Nice to hear you're learning some programming, that's always fun. If you want to contribute to open-source projects like PCSX2 though, may I suggest you learn some C? Java is a pain in the ass, I wish Android apps didn't require as much Java knowledge as they do. :-\

[masterotaku]

so therefore I would suggest you turn on Aero so that you get Windows to handle vsync until exclusive fullscreen gets implemented.

No, thanks. In that case I get stuttering instead of tearing. I want 0 tearing and 0 stuttering, so for now I'm going to use resolutions that make vsync work fine.

Do you want more FPS or do you want your games not to tear? XD

Both . And no stuttering.

Side-note: I've never seen PCSX2 tear on me and I don't have Vsync on in PCSX2. Could that be because Windows is doing the vsync?

I don't think so. Are you sensitive to tearing? Besides, tearing is unavoidable in games that internally have fps drops, like the God of War games.

Nice to hear you're learning some programming, that's always fun. If you want to contribute to open-source projects like PCSX2 though, may I suggest you learn some C?

Well, I'm already a systems administrator, so programming was my next step. Next one is learning C and C++. Maybe later next year. For now I'm good at understanding any kind of loops, but I seriously hate arrays, specially if they have 2 or more dimensions . They don't fit nicely in my head.

[karasuhebi]

No, thanks. In that case I get stuttering instead of tearing. I want 0 tearing and 0 stuttering, so for now I'm going to use resolutions that make vsync work fine.

Both . And no stuttering.

I don't think so. Are you sensitive to tearing? Besides, tearing is unavoidable in games that internally have fps drops, like the God of War games.

Well, I'm already a systems administrator, so programming was my next step. Next one is learning C and C++. Maybe later next year. For now I'm good at understanding any kind of loops, but I seriously hate arrays, specially if they have 2 or more dimensions . They don't fit nicely in my head.

That sounds like a plan to me! I'm really curious as to why it only happens at certain resolutions for you though. Would you mind trying a different GS plugin to see what that does for you?

Would you mind making a video of PCSX2 stuttering? I want to see if I notice it. Or would it be hard to tell unless you're actually playing the game? Who knows? Maybe my games stutter and I'm just not sensitive to it!

You don't think Windows is performing vsync on PCSX2? Why not? It doesn't seem that far fetched; I know for a fact that Windows 7 (with Areo turned on) does vsync on media players like MPC-HC. Also if I read what tsunami2311 said correctly, he seems to think that Windows does handle vsync for PCSX2. Obviously he could be wrong about Windows handling vsync for PCSX2, hence why I'm asking you why you don't think that's the case. Also I am sensitive to tearing. I can see it quite clearly when it happens. I've seen it on USFIV and I've see it in Dolphin. Never on PCSX2 though. Again, mind making a video of it? Maybe it's so subtle that I'm not sensitive enough to it. I'm very curious to find out.

Wow, sysadmin at your age. Nice man! Which certs do you have? Oh God, multidimensional arrays. Those make my head spin too lol.

[masterotaku]

Would you mind trying a different GS plugin to see what that does for you?

OK, I've tried now many games with GSdx in directx 9 mode (Aero disabled). Now vsync works in all of them at every resolution I tried. There seems to be a problem in DX11 mode. It's a pity that DX9 looks and performs worse.
Just in case, I disabled MSI Afterburner an everything that could interfere, but it didn't matter.

Would you mind making a video of PCSX2 stuttering? I want to see if I notice it. Or would it be hard to tell unless you're actually playing the game? Who knows? Maybe my games stutter and I'm just not sensitive to it!

I've tried now PCSX2 with Aero enabled. The performance hit is much smaller than I remembered (136 vs 137 fps in Tenkaichi 3). With it enabled, there isn't any tearing, but it looks like it drops a frame between every 10 or 20 seconds. It's bearable, but I would prefer perfect vsync with no sttuter, the extra input lag of Aero or tearing XD.

You don't think Windows is performing vsync on PCSX2? Why not? It doesn't seem that far fetched; I know for a fact that Windows 7 (with Areo turned on) does vsync on media players like MPC-HC. Also if I read what tsunami2311 said correctly, he seems to think that Windows does handle vsync for PCSX2.

Aero is kind of forcing vsync to the entire desktop, but there's stuttering every now and then because the aplication (PCSX2) isn't synched to the monitor itself. In fact, MPC-HC can predict when a frame drop will occur. With vsync and aero disabled, there is a slow tear line, but with one of them enabled, it's one frame drop every X seconds (in this case vsync isn't perfect because the fps of the video must match exactly the monitor Hz or an exact multiple. In games it's perfect).

Wow, sysadmin at your age. Nice man! Which certs do you have?

Umm, it was pretty easy. I don't know the equivalence in other countries, but it's above high school but below college. It focuses more on the practice than on the theory. It was 2 years, and now I'm in my second year of "Web Applications Development". I could have taken a Cisco CCNA exam, but I didn't want to pay 100€ (it's usually 300€) for one try that requires an 80% of correct answers to pass and it expires in two years.

PS: I won't take a video because I don't have good cameras to record it from outside my PC, and my upload speed is very slow.

[tsunami2311]

That sounds like a plan to me! I'm really curious as to why it only happens at certain resolutions for you though. Would you mind trying a different GS plugin to see what that does for you?

Would you mind making a video of PCSX2 stuttering? I want to see if I notice it. Or would it be hard to tell unless you're actually playing the game? Who knows? Maybe my games stutter and I'm just not sensitive to it!

You don't think Windows is performing vsync on PCSX2? Why not? It doesn't seem that far fetched; I know for a fact that Windows 7 (with Areo turned on) does vsync on media players like MPC-HC. Also if I read what tsunami2311 said correctly, he seems to think that Windows does handle vsync for PCSX2. Obviously he could be wrong about Windows handling vsync for PCSX2, hence why I'm asking you why you don't think that's the case. Also I am sensitive to tearing. I can see it quite clearly when it happens. I've seen it on USFIV and I've see it in Dolphin. Never on PCSX2 though. Again, mind making a video of it? Maybe it's so subtle that I'm not sensitive enough to it. I'm very curious to find out.

Wow, sysadmin at your age. Nice man! Which certs do you have? Oh God, multidimensional arrays. Those make my head spin too lol.

Aero/Desktop composition handle VSYNC for any program ran in Windowed/windowed full screen. in windows 7 and GSDX is windowed/windowed fullscreen. Unless said program OVERRIDES vsync.

That i noticed if AERO/Desktop composition in recent Nvidia driver results in Vsync not work at all in windowed/windowed fullscreen even if you force vsync with in the program. with aero/desktop composition disabled vsync only seemed to work when fullscreen (exclusive) is used which again gsdx dont use fullscreen exclusive. This bug is still there last checked which was month or so ago and i was using 337.50 i currently on 344.52.
And lets not forget some game engines/programs are done in ways where you will see minimum tear if any at all with out vsync though rare. while some will Tear like no tomorrow with out vsync again rare.

I disable aero frequently and even when i do i see no difference between aero vsync and actual driver vsync or game vsync as far as studders go cause they all studder. That and i will take studder and the performance hits that vsync has over tearing any day/week/month year.

[Akio]

Aero is kind of forcing vsync to the entire desktop, but there's stuttering every now and then because the aplication (PCSX2) isn't synched to the monitor itself.

That is strange. I don't have this issue. Do you enable Vsync in PCSX2 settings?

[masterotaku]

That is strange. I don't have this issue. Do you enable Vsync in PCSX2 settings?

Of course. That's the point of this discussion .

[tsunami2311]

If you have vsync on via Aero/desktop composition and enabling vsync via pcsx2 it add a performance hit and not much else last I checked.