..:: PCSX2 Forums ::..

(04-02-2013, 08:58 AM)VIRGIN KLM Wrote: [ -> ]I'll explain why removing the bars from the game should NOT happen other than the FMVs, in all rest games I can see here I'd say it should happen, but not this one, I caught myself thinking of it many times and after alot of thinking and testing here's what I thought.
In order to "understand" why those black bars are there, I need to check all the games in the series, especialy games that were released after KH2 like let's say Birth By Sleep on the PSP which has a 16:9 screen and 358/2 Days on NDS that has 4:3 screens and see what they did there.

1.So it looks like in the case of Birth By Sleep on the PSP that has a native 16:9 screen there are no bars at all and on 358/2 days on NDS that has 4:3 there are bars so that means atleast that cutscenes were ALWAYS planned to be 16:9 at a fixed zoom and fixed fov. Removing the bars and having at the same time a widescreen hack results into a zoom out effect not a widescreen effect.
2. Removing the black bars leaves a terrible gap between the subtitles and the bottom of the screen, it's so visible that it's distracting, like there's something missing on that gap.
3. Even if you zoom back in and fit the screen to the original proportions minus the bars, it would affect the main gameplay and the position of the HUD and the subtitles which would overlap alot of stuff.
4. Apart from the aesthetic direction they set, they have an extra purpose, they indicate when you have user input to the game and when you don't and there are a couple of parts in the game that this is important.

My point is if there is a way to have different zoom function for in-game gameplay and cutscenes then it's more a candidate for "personal taste" option but without that, you break other vital parts of the gameplay, artist direction and visuals.

@VIRGIN:

Technically, you're not "zooming out". The camera remains in the same position the entire time.

The gap isn't distracting at all to me, check out that one screen I posted, it's not that bad.

Plus if you're horrible at differentiating between cutscenes/gameplay, KH2 makes it obvious when you're about to enter a battle, because the information bar pops up in the top left, and the battle music begins to play, and the camera slowly rotes. That should be enough to let you know to get your fingers ready.

@Nemesis:

Thanks for the Clock Tower 3 FMV patch!

(04-02-2013, 06:48 AM)devina40 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the black bar fix!
I'll see about porting it to the other KH2 versions later on, so you don't have to.


I'd have to see about what other people think, since I personally prefer no bars, and would prefer that by default.

It's not that bad, plus you get more of the game. The only loss is it feels less "cinematic" for a cutscene, but I think that's moreso because we're used to black bars in cutscenes.

It's kind of like how they added more fps to the Hobbit - some people loved it, some hated it, but from a technical standapoint, more fps is obviously better.


(It's really not that bad - you get used to it)

To be fair, we don't know what the developers wanted or intended, since the PS2 had limits, and everyone back in the year 2000 had 4:3 TVs, not widescreen, so they weren't thinking ahead for the future.

And this is also coming from a video gamer, and Kingdom Hearts fan myself (beaten all of them except Coded).

Actually the black boxes is quite simple to explain, white text on a moving image can make the text very hard to see, especially if you have certain vision problems, that said it seems that some still use this method, others do not.

OK to set things straight because people keep saying that things are subjective when they are not:
1. Gaining extra amaount of view on the sides of a 4:3 frame is called 16:9, removing at the same time the black bars results into gaining exactly the same amount of viewing angle on top/bottom which is a zoom out effect.
2. It is not subjective the fact that Square wanted to have different aspect ratios/black bars for gameplay and cutscenes, alot of games do that that come with native 16:9 setting even on PS3 and XBOX360, they could just remove the black bars and put lower the subtitles which would be easier for them too.
3. Also it is not subjective the fact that people have to live with the fact that there is no way to remove the subtitles and that they'll have to live with it and this fact affects also how and what will happen with a 16:9 hack.
4. People keep telling me that I'm the guy that says "But developers didn't intend the game to be like this and that and have 16:9" which is silly for those people who know me, I am the example of the opposite. I could care less of what developers would intend, I only care for accuracy of an outcome without compromising quality.
5. Removing those black bars will give a different effective fov on gameplay than on cutscenes which is super weird and does not follow at all the philosophy of all those widescreen hacks here.

Remember that what you all have posted here, I've thought of all those before I posted. The black bar fix and the removal of black bars would be good only if you'd plan to record cutscenes for a video and that's all.

3. The position subtitles really aren't an issue. Take another look:
http://forums.pcsx2.net/attachment.php?aid=43565

It's not like they're in the exact middle of the screen, plus that is as high as they'll ever go.

4. I don't see how black bar removals comprise quality, if anything, they add more to the picture and show more of the quality.

5. Could you please elaborate? I don't follow.
Black bar removals do not affect fov in gameplay in any way (I checked), plus there is no set-in-stone definition of the goal of the widescreen patches.

(04-02-2013, 07:23 PM)VIRGIN KLM Wrote: [ -> ]OK to set things straight because people keep saying that things are subjective when they are not:
1. Gaining extra amaount of view on the sides of a 4:3 frame is called 16:9, removing at the same time the black bars results into gaining exactly the same amount of viewing angle on top/bottom which is a zoom out effect.
2. It is not subjective the fact that Square wanted to have different aspect ratios/black bars for gameplay and cutscenes, alot of games do that that come with native 16:9 setting even on PS3 and XBOX360, they could just remove the black bars and put lower the subtitles which would be easier for them too.
3. Also it is not subjective the fact that people have to live with the fact that there is no way to remove the subtitles and that they'll have to live with it and this fact affects also how and what will happen with a 16:9 hack.
4. People keep telling me that I'm the guy that says "But developers didn't intend the game to be like this and that and have 16:9" which is silly for those people who know me, I am the example of the opposite. I could care less of what developers would intend, I only care for accuracy of an outcome without compromising quality.
5. Removing those black bars will give a different effective fov on gameplay than on cutscenes which is super weird and does not follow at all the philosophy of all those widescreen hacks here.

Remember that what you all have posted here, I've thought of all those before I posted. The black bar fix and the removal of black bars would be good only if you'd plan to record cutscenes for a video and that's all.

Can we fix the aspect ratio problem for KH 1.5? I rather have true widescreen for that game

(04-02-2013, 08:58 AM)VIRGIN KLM Wrote: [ -> ]My point is if there is a way to have different zoom function for in-game gameplay and cutscenes then it's more a candidate for "personal taste" option but without that, you break other vital parts of the gameplay, artist direction and visuals.

optional patch for custcenes

Quote:patch=1,EE,2036a0bc,word,43f90000

(04-02-2013, 07:23 PM)VIRGIN KLM Wrote: [ -> ]3. Also it is not subjective the fact that people have to live with the fact that there is no way to remove the subtitles

for subtitles

Quote:patch=1,EE,0022d8d4,word,11e00019

not sure that it removes only subtitles and removes subtitles everywhere, so it require testing
update for the pal version of the kh2 will be tomorrow

They break the analogy of how close you are to the character, what should be visible and what not on each axis.
Colored Area: The image area (it's 16:9) you see without the black bars without any widescreen hack.
Blue Area: The hidden area of the black bars.
Red Area: The extra field you see with Widescreen hacks.



So if you keep the widescreen hack and at the same time you remove the black bars it's a zoom out effect and it's not analogous to the gameplay area, so this does not follow the architecture of all the rest widescreen patches here. It's exactly the same result you would get if you'd go to a widescreen TV you set the TV from it's setting and hide the black bars with Pan Scan and zoom out with a cheat the screen, that's no a widescreen hack. What you want to gain in widescreen hacks is the extra field on the sides, not the top and bottom and since this game uses bars on cutscenes and not on gameplay it's incorrect compared to the philosophy of the rest widescreen hacks here to touch those bars.

EDIT: A more clear image why it is only a zoom out effect if you use the widescreen hack and black bar removal cheat at the same time for those that fail to do the math. On the first is shown the viewable area without any hacks just pan scan out the black bars at and the second is using all the conficting cheats at the same time which renders more area at all sides, hence this is called zoom out:

I see.
It's only really considered a "zoom out" effect if you assume that the developers wanted you pan scan during cutscenes, which we don't know for sure.

They could have put the bars there because they wanted to make cutscenes more typical cutscene-like (which is what I assume),
not because they wanted you to actually pan scan all the cutscenes.
If you did, then you'd have to constantly change it back and forth all the time for gameplay. That would become tedious and I doubt developers would have wanted that.

Interestingly, cutscenes in FFX have no bars.

I also dislike it when the camera is zoomed far too close for everything anyway, such as Resident Evil 6, because it feels like the camera is moving too fast all the time.

(04-02-2013, 08:53 PM)nemesis2000 Wrote: [ -> ]for subtitles

Code:

patch=1,EE,0022d8d4,word,11e00019

not sure that it removes only subtitles and removes subtitles everywhere, so it require testing
update for the pal version of the kh2 will be tomorrow

Great gonna test that. The only bad thing I found so far from it is that since KH2FM has those new cutscenes that have no voice acting, you can't understand what they're saying, also it removes unvoiced text speech like the text that is beeing seen when Xemnas talks to Roxas in his mind and his voice is not audiable which kinda create a hole in the storyline. I'll test more.

(04-02-2013, 09:58 PM)devina40 Wrote: [ -> ]I see.
It's only really considered a "zoom out" effect if you assume that the developers wanted you pan scan during cutscenes, which we don't know for sure.

They could have put the bars there because they wanted to make cutscenes more typical cutscene-like (which is what I assume),
not because they wanted you to actually pan scan all the cutscenes.
If you did, then you'd have to constantly change it back and forth all the time for gameplay. That would become tedious and I doubt developers would have wanted that.

Interestingly, cutscenes in FFX have no bars.

I also dislike it when the camera is zoomed far too close for everything anyway, such as Resident Evil 6, because it feels like the camera is moving too fast all the time.

I do not dissagree, that's not my point either, but you start to add and remove way too much stuff to the point a game becomes unrecognisable and way too far of what it should feel. Simplicity is the best thing and this is just too much, I like that extra field on the sides but all those hacks one on top of the other rape the development of the game. It starts to feel like an unfinished/unpolished product with all those hacks other than just giving that extra bit.